C2 Install & Pictures: 85,000 miles on

markiii · May 26, 2008, 00:01

biggest issue is headgasket don;t use teh MWR one, get one made,

spit · May 29, 2008, 12:46

Quick water pump question ... perceived wisdom on SC is that a 2zz pump with lightened pulley is a good option and a relatively straight swap.... but pulley size means locating a longer serp belt s:? :? s:? .

Anyone over this side tried it?

rmowbray · May 29, 2008, 13:16

Any clues yet as to the source of the elusive clattle (cross between a clatter and a rattle)?

spit · May 29, 2008, 13:32

Nope. Theories towards the followers, or possibly a chain that is so tired that the tensioner hit its adjustment limit .... but the intermittent nature of this means we might never find the problem.

With my luck, I'll do a rebuild and still have a noise after its finished s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

markiii · May 29, 2008, 14:49

Quote from: "spit"Quick water pump question ... perceived wisdom on SC is that a 2zz pump with lightened pulley is a good option and a relatively straight swap.... but pulley size means locating a longer serp belt s:? :? s:? .

Anyone over this side tried it?

2zz pump is defiantely worth it having seen teh differences

spit · May 29, 2008, 15:13

Quote from: "markiii"2zz pump is defiantely worth it having seen the differences

Hmmm I'll have to check on the availability of a different size of belt then. The stock AC'd serp belt is already pretty long s:? :? s:?

markiii · May 29, 2008, 16:37

in theory Goodyear do them in a multitude of sizes just pic one within tolerance, I've never actively tried to get one though

spit · June 26, 2008, 10:14

A quick update.

Progress is slow as I'm only spending a few hours a week on the car. The dirty work is all done, so its now time to work out how it all goes back together s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

After several rounds of consultation (thanks guys - you know who you are), I've decided to keep everything stock. It has served me well, and it seems that there is a trade-off with all of the upgrades I've looked into. So, stock it is.

Still no obvious diagnosis on the original problem, but there were signs of very recent detonation, the chain was stretched, and the chain guides worn. I'm thinking that the cams were drifting out of sync because of this, although why it happened immediately and then became an intermittent problem is very odd.

If anyone wants any specific photos taking, shout up.

spit · July 2, 2008, 08:40

Quote from: "spit"Still no obvious diagnosis on the original problem, but there were signs of very recent detonation....

Here's what I mean - the same across all four cylinders, although this is the worst of them.....

Before the head was cleaned, these were shiny, fresh and new marks ... so whatever happened happened instantaneously (and then intermittently!). Any ideas?

Wabbitkilla · July 2, 2008, 10:27

I'm guessing here that they're a mirror of the mess on top of the pistons.

Detonation occurred on top of the pistons and then the debris was squished against the head?
I reckon that was the clattering you were hearing.
Just what on earth caused this detonation? (Your question really)

You timing chain was obviously well stretched, which happens over time and distance gradually.
But i remember of my bike chains that once they started stretching they seemed to accelerate in wear and stretch, so hypothetically could you have suffered this kind of action?

Obviously the chain strethed to such a point that the tensioner and runners were no longer controlling it's slap which would result in unpredictable and variable valve action - a 'good' cause for detonation. It won't have been constant as rev rise and drop the chain slaps at different moments thus changing the valve timing constantly. Also, chains don't stretch linearly along their length, you might have a few links stretched more than the others - this can happen suddenly and is a precursor to full failure and a snap (don't want that happening now do we?). How suddenly i don't really know the physics, but bike chains can do it pretty rapidly - BUT they are under greater strain (but are also bigger).

Hmmmmm..... so can the head be salvaged and the damage polished out? A bit of gentle grinding and polishing needs to be balanced across all cylinders to ensure the cylinder capacity and squish volumes are kept in balance (you don't want an unbalanced engine - asking for crank trouble then). One advantage to increasing the squish volume - or rather reducing the amount the charge is squished means that you are reducing the compression ration of the engine - which is good for FI setups.

Someone will probably come along to say i'm wrong, but it makes sense to me.
s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

spit · July 2, 2008, 10:58

Thats about the limit of my thinking too Nic.

I've ruled out crappy fuel as this occured mid-tank after a day of fun. The Emanage bottling it is unlikely as the car was running fine under most conditions before & since, and just going silly at idle .... so yes, it kinda points towards the chain. If you recall, removing and re-setting the chain tensioner did improve things for a while.

The domes should polish up OK. If they don't we're into big bucks.....

....or for the same price I could probably land this - going through auction today. Much more my style!

Anonymous · July 2, 2008, 12:56

Hi Ste

Looks like you may have found some of your problem - there was or still could be a second hand head on ebay.

Thanks
Rob.

spit · July 2, 2008, 13:24

Quote from: "FGRob"Looks like you may have found some of your problem

Problem found Rob, but the cause is still a mystery, and thats the infuriating thing s:(

s:(

Anonymous · July 2, 2008, 14:28

Quote from: "spit"
Quote from: "FGRob"Looks like you may have found some of your problem

Problem found Rob, but the cause is still a mystery, and thats the infuriating thing s:( s:(

Here's one to think about, have you checked your blades on the turbo s:idea: :idea: s:idea:

spit · July 2, 2008, 20:21

Quote from: "FGRob"Here's one to think about, have you checked your blades on the turbo

enid_b · July 2, 2008, 20:45

nice pic ste, but is that a good thing or a bad thing, my inexperience with turbos doesnt tell me a thing.

its like the inverse of "this post is useless without pictures"

lol,

glad it seems to be working out mate

J

spit · July 2, 2008, 21:44

I'm not sure what I'm looking at either matey s:D

s:D It looks like everything is intact. Scratty, but intact.

aaronjb · July 2, 2008, 21:47

I think that's why Rob was asking - in case a blade was damaged and the engine damage was actually from it ingesting a bit of turbo blade.. but no, they look fine with no blade or housing damage visible.

The pitting on the head looks pretty deep, I'm not sure you'll be able to polish that out s:(

s:(

Anonymous · July 3, 2008, 06:35

Quote from: "aaronjb"I think that's why Rob was asking - in case a blade was damaged and the engine damage was actually from it ingesting a bit of turbo blade.. but no, they look fine with no blade or housing damage visible.

The pitting on the head looks pretty deep, I'm not sure you'll be able to polish that out s:( s:(

Yep - best to strike it off the list - do I see fresh paint Ste s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:

I think you could be right about the pitting.

I don't think I've seen damage like that before as a result of "pinking" it's more in keeping with a small object let loose in there.

Rob.

kanujunkie · July 3, 2008, 06:56

is it just the picture or is there some metal chips out of the centre of the hub of the turbo?

Jaik · July 3, 2008, 07:21

Quote from: "kanujunkie"is it just the picture or is there some metal chips out of the centre of the hub of the turbo?

I believe that's how they balance turbos s:)

s:)

spit · July 3, 2008, 08:01

It does look for all the world as if something was ingested into all of the pots, but there's no sign of what or where from.

I've never seen detonation damage before so no clue what I should be looking for s:oops: :oops: s:oops: . The damage is all at the 'high' points - the valves are completely untouched s:shock: :shock: s:shock: . Ditto on the pistons - damage was limited to front and rear peaks between the valves.

Bores are unmarked too.

(no fresh paint on the compressor Rob, just an oily rag wipe of the ceramic coating)

aaronjb · July 3, 2008, 09:03

Quote from: "Jaik"
Quote from: "kanujunkie"is it just the picture or is there some metal chips out of the centre of the hub of the turbo?
I believe that's how they balance turbos s:) s:)

Yep, what that man said - same way you balance cranks when removing material.. with a drill bit s;)

s;)

Quote from: "spit"It does look for all the world as if something was ingested into all of the pots, but there's no sign of what or where from.

I've never seen detonation damage before so no clue what I should be looking for s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Block looks very nice, Ste s:)

s:) I'm jealous! Though I don't want mine to expire just yet *frantically searches for some wood*

FOD damage and detonation damage can look quite alike - to me that looks more like detonation than FOD, though.. FOD usually gives you smoother edges to the pits as the crud gets "squashed" into the softer metal, whereas that looks like little.. well it looks like someone took a drill bit to it in places - very clean, precise, almost surgical "divets".

Still can't quite figure out what would make bad det happen all of a sudden, though - at least not something that wouldn't cause a CEL (since you are running the eManage you do at least get that luxury when a sensor is going AWOL) s:(

s:(

Anonymous · July 4, 2008, 18:37

Have you checked the sparkplugs, broken pieces could have done similar demage? I am assuming heat problems, detonation and blowed sparkplugs..?

spit · July 4, 2008, 19:26

That was an issue that did not occur to me Gas - good thinking.... but everything that has been removed has been looked at very closely and is intact s:? :? s:? This is a real mystery.

I polished out the damage in the head today. took a few pics part way through (which I'll root out later) and very pleased with the result.

Quite a reflective and emotional day - I was using Perry's old dremmel for a good few hours. If anything could bring about a good result from a near write-off, that'd be it s8)

s8)