Oil filter changed?

onion86 · May 19, 2021, 10:50

It seems Toyota has now phased out the 90915-YZZJ1 filters and are supplying 90915-YZZM3, which are substantially smaller. So these have been sent, even though I ordered and the invoice shows the YZZJ1 code.

These were bought via eBay from the official Toyota Store.

I've been told these are 'compatible', but before I complain too much... surely this can't have the same filtering capacity as what I've been using for the last 13 years based on its size?

Joesson · May 19, 2021, 11:18

@onion86
I thought at first just reading the text that this was one other thing that has got smaller with the passing of time.
But on looking at the picture the 1zz engine is listed on the larger filter but not so on the smaller.
Maybe a case of that was what was in stock/he won't mind/ notice/ complain!
Sale of Goods Act - "Item supplied is not as described" / "Fit for purpose" , as their own information supplied with the product!
Replacement or full refund thank you.

PS
The Europarts site shows " compatible" filters from other manufacturers - Crosland, Mann, Bosch,
Different prices but consistent sizes , 75 mm high, 66 mm od, 55 id

jonbill · May 19, 2021, 12:11

the density of the materials in the filter determines how well it filters and the amount of material determines how long it can filter for.
so it's at least plausible that the smaller filter is fit for purpose for the given service interval.

Dev · May 19, 2021, 13:53

Most filters are not saturated to the point where the bypass valve activates for the oil change intervals. You can even go double or tipple the interval without issue so size doesn't matter as much unless its a big engine with a larger capacity of oil. What is important is the bypass valve specifications which are set differently for different applications. When the car is under load the bypass valve in the filter activates to protect the filter media by going towards the path of least resistance and to divert all the available oil pressure for the engine.
Toyota often times discontinue filters for older cars and condense them to existing filters matching the specifications. They did this with the 2ZZ where the 1ZZ filter can be used in its place however I always buy the 2ZZ oil filter not because its larger but because it was the filter the engineers tested the engine with and I do not want any other unknown compromises the current engineers may have made to slim their product lines.

Joesson · May 19, 2021, 17:35

All well and good, the smaller filter may now be considered by MrT to be capable of doing the same job as the OE larger filter.
But, it was larger when first designed, presumably for a reason. I suggest that the only reason they are saying that the smaller filter will now "do" is that it suits the beam counter. One less item to stock. Sorry but why not change the packaging in that case and say it suits the 1zz?
In that case why buy a Toyota filter? Other manufacturer's / suppliers are available and they seem to be retaining the " old" dimensions, including those that make only filters.

J88TEO · May 19, 2021, 21:58

That's what I get too.

Joesson · May 20, 2021, 08:12

Not to labour the point too much but notice that the Toyota filter is " Made in China" as are many things today. But if buying into a "Brand" then surely that must be made at least in the same country as the OE equipment.
I typically buy Mann or Bosch filters, Mann being a reputable German Company that specialises in filtration. Bosch being a reputable German Company that is OE supplier of many auto parts to many motor manufacturers.

J88TEO · May 20, 2021, 09:56

Both Mann and Bosch made in Germany?
Made in China coz Toyota shifted production of low value items to China many years ago.

Beachbum957 · May 20, 2021, 11:30

Here in the US, the filters all have been Denso made in Thailand. Many people were running the 2ZZ filter (90915-YZZF2) which was the longer filter. Recently all of the 1ZZ and 2ZZ filters have been superseded by 90915-YZZN1, which seems to be the smaller filter, also Denso made in Thailand.

The performance of an oil filter depends on the number of pleats and the filter material, and not so much about the size. About the only way to determine which filter is better is by cutting them open to get the number of pleats and actual performance testing to determine the micron rating of the filter (the size of particles it will trap) and the flow rates

The problem is the filter suppliers don't normally publish the micron ratings. But one Toyota dealer did an interesting comparison between brands.

https://parts.olathetoyota.com/tundra-oil-filter-comparison

tricky1138 · May 20, 2021, 15:27

I'm sure there was a post on here about someone opening up oil filters to see which was the best. Was a few years ago now.

I have the new filter - was just told this was the new one - its been superseded.

Guess I should have queried it more, but Toyota wouldn't sell something that would damage your engine.

I don't do the miles to know if it would make a difference either. Will prob get replaced after 2k.

Joesson · May 20, 2021, 15:43

I believe the oil filter review was done by a Member on Spyderchat.

@tricky1138 said:

"Toyota wouldn't sell something that would damage your engine"

Do I detect a trace of irony there?

SV-3 · May 20, 2021, 15:44

I'm hoping that @Petrus and @Gibla will include a chapter on the revised filter in their co-authored tome on weight saving entitled 'The Bearable Beings of Lightness' (with apologies to Milan Kundera).

Dev · May 20, 2021, 16:21

By opening up filters you can tell the quality of construction and the number of pleats including the filter media it uses but its still speculation on how much better it is compared to another filter. There are some filters that are poorly constructed and you can rule them out but there is no way of knowing if one filter is better than other comparable filters unless they are tested on a rig which I have seen long ago as it was tested and it had some interesting observations and that is most factory filters including the the Denso filter that was tested are generally not as efficient as some of the aftermarket filters and this is because they favor oil flow over maximum efficiency.
For my use case I want maximum oil flow as it was specified from the engineers. I also want a bypass valve that is set correctly and not one that is in between two applications. That is why I always try and seek out the factory oil filters. Denso in my opinion makes quality parts and follows the philosophy that gives Toyota its reputation. One other thing I notice with Toyota parts like filters and such and that is they are reasonable in costs compared to other makes and they are pinnacle of quality.

Gibla · May 20, 2021, 18:45

Quote from: SV-3 on May 20, 2021, 15:44I'm hoping that @Petrus and @Gibla will include a chapter on the revised filter in their co-authored tome on weight saving entitled 'The Bearable Beings of Lightness' (with apologies to Milan Kundera).

:-) I will leave that pleasure to @Petrus, he may manage a 0.0000(recurring ad infinitum)1 g saving

Petrus · May 20, 2021, 20:53

:-) I will leave that pleasure to @Petrus, he may manage a 0.0000(recurring ad infinitum)1 g saving
[/quote]

I hate to disappoint but I ádded weight.
I think the best way to have fresh clean oil it to change it a bit earlier/more often.
Thus not ODC about the oil filter, but I did add two dime size neodimium magnets on the outside of the sump plug.
It will have slightly affected the front rear balance to a more rearward biass and lowered the cog, so not all bad.

Beachbum957 · May 21, 2021, 12:37

Quote from: Joesson on May 20, 2021, 15:43I believe the oil filter review was done by a Member on Spyderchat.

Not exactly scientific, but interesting and useful reports.

Link

Another Link

Joesson · May 21, 2021, 13:08

Quote from: Beachbum957 on May 21, 2021, 12:37
Quote from: Joesson on May 20, 2021, 15:43I believe the oil filter review was done by a Member on Spyderchat.

Not exactly scientific, but interesting and useful reports.

Link

Another Link

Interesting, in 2008 when the Spyderman did a review of various filters he observed:

"Here is the Toyota OEM. The biggest filter in the pack. When set side to side with other filters its about an 1 inch to 1 1/2 taller than the other filters."

Not quite the case today, I really do believe that IF Toyota have reduced the size of the filter, remember they have not said it suits the 1zz on the box, only an unsupported comment, then it must be to suit the stock control Bean Counter.

Beachbum957 · May 21, 2021, 13:21

I think the OEM filter he cut open was the longer 2ZZ filter. Most people were using that one at the time. But it was replaced not long after that by a shorter filter (90915-YZZF2), and that has now been replaced by the current filter.

One feature listed on another site (not confirmed) is the OEM / Denso filter has an anti-drainback valve.

I have always used the OEM filter and change at 3,500 miles.

Joesson · May 21, 2021, 13:33

Quote from: Beachbum957 on May 21, 2021, 13:21I think the OEM filter he cut open was the longer 2ZZ filter. Most people were using that one at the time. But it was replaced not long after that by a shorter filter (90915-YZZF2), and that has now been replaced by the current filter.

One feature listed on another site (not confirmed) is the OEM / Denso filter has an anti-drainback valve.

I have always used the OEM filter and change at 3,500 miles.

OEM as in saying 1zz on the box or as identified by a part number produced / published by Toyota.