Crappy handbrake help

[Ozzy]

Another mr2 with handbrake issues

Not too long ago had brand new brake discs, pads, rear calipers and handbrake cables fitted but handbrake is still rubbish. When the work was done, I told the mechanic about having to wind the caliper out by half a turn, have let the brakes bedd in and adjusted a few times but still hasn't helped at all.

Handbrake is rubbish no matter what. Even if its super tightened, it still rolls on steep hills but then feels like the calipers are sticking when driving and if its loosened abit, handbrake hardly holds. Right now, the handbrake wont even hold on a flat road anymore.

Any ideas what's wrong?

[SV-3]

Another mr2 with handbrake issues

Not too long ago had brand new brake discs, pads, rear calipers and handbrake cables fitted but handbrake is still rubbish. When the work was done, I told the mechanic about having to wind the caliper out by half a turn, have let the brakes bedd in and adjusted a few times but still hasn't helped at all.

Handbrake is rubbish no matter what. Even if its super tightened, it still rolls on steep hills but then feels like the calipers are sticking when driving and if its loosened abit, handbrake hardly holds. Right now, the handbrake wont even hold on a flat road anymore.

Any ideas what's wrong?

Are the calipers OEM?

[Call the midlife!]

Respectfully, as I don't know the competence levels of the people involved.
Are they definitely rear pads and did the mechanic engage the "nipple" on the pads with the corresponding notch in the piston?
Won't work no matter what else you do otherwise.
After that it's usually all down to observing the correct adjustment methods in the files section.

[Carolyn]

There's a 'how to' for this.

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68798.0

Many garage mechanics don't know the correct way to adjust these brakes.

Let us know how you get on?

[Ozzy]

Are the calipers OEM?

Respectfully, as I don't know the competence levels of the people involved.
Are they definitely rear pads and did the mechanic engage the "nipple" on the pads with the corresponding notch in the piston?
Won't work no matter what else you do otherwise.
After that it's usually all down to observing the correct adjustment methods in the files section.

The calipers I believe are by Blueprint and finished in shiny silver as I've found several part suppliers that list those calipers in the same finish. The discs and pads were done all around and braking force is better than ever now that they're bedded in.

I'm unsure about the nipple thing to be honest. The mechanic did mention something about checking/doing something with it when I originally went back for an adjustment but I'll mention it again next time. These guys are generally pretty good and decently priced but never know. MR2 is abit odd.

There's a 'how to' for this.

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68798.0

Many garage mechanics don't know the correct way to adjust these brakes.

Let us know how you get on?

Funnily enough, I've actually shown them your thread just incase they were missing something but they've told me everything is as it should be.

Something's definitely wrong though. Thinking I'll have a go at adjusting it myself first this time as it can't hurt to try at this point. Each time I've gone back. it holds okay-ish on slight hills for a week or two but goes crap again very quick. Right now it's not holding at all lol.

[Carolyn]

Are the calipers OEM?

Respectfully, as I don't know the competence levels of the people involved.
Are they definitely rear pads and did the mechanic engage the "nipple" on the pads with the corresponding notch in the piston?
Won't work no matter what else you do otherwise.
After that it's usually all down to observing the correct adjustment methods in the files section.

The calipers I believe are by Blueprint and finished in shiny silver as I've found several part suppliers that list those calipers in the same finish. The discs and pads were done all around and braking force is better than ever now that they're bedded in.

I'm unsure about the nipple thing to be honest. The mechanic did mention something about checking/doing something with it when I originally went back for an adjustment but I'll mention it again next time. These guys are generally pretty good and decently priced but never know. MR2 is abit odd.

There's a 'how to' for this.

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68798.0

Many garage mechanics don't know the correct way to adjust these brakes.

Let us know how you get on?

Funnily enough, I've actually shown them your thread just incase they were missing something but they've told me everything is as it should be.

Something's definitely wrong though. Thinking I'll have a go at adjusting it myself first this time as it can't hurt to try at this point. Each time I've gone back. it holds okay-ish on slight hills for a week or two but goes crap again very quick. Right now it's not holding at all lol.

If everything was 'as it should be', the handbrake would work. Reliably and repeatedly. So I'm not sure how much credence to put in anything else they might say.

[jim_jiminy]

I had an absolute nightmare with my handbrake - failed MOT twice and the garage took 2 weeks to find the cause - wrong cables fitted by previous owner....so £450 later I have a good handbrake again.

[Flat-land-Matt]

I too have handbrake issues unfortunately.

I bought the car recently from a member on here via ebay. He said the handbrake did tend to stick (driver's side), to avoid using it, and just leave it in gear.

I took the car to a local Toyota specialist (Toyotek Lincoln) this morning to get checked over to see if anything needed doing. They seems to think the handbrake issue was down to the cable being too short, they suggested the wrong cable might've been fitted. The previous owner had a project thread online which showed he'd changed the cables in the last few years with oem parts. To be honest, given how many hours work the previous owner put into the car, and how meticulously they approached everything else, I doubt he would have used the wrong part.

I understand the handbrake adjustment procedure is very particular on these cars - to someone who doesn't work on them very regularly, is it likely the cable could appear too short? The garage said they would need to get the car back in to measure the cable and order one, which seemed a bit odd, I would've thought they would just need to look up a part number?

The garage also said genuine cables are tricky to get hold of, is this true, does anyone know of a reliable source to get them? I've read pattern cables are best avoided.

[Carolyn]

Your garage is having a giraffe! The cable could appear too short, if it's well out of adjustment and the balance bar inside the centre console is sitting crooked.

Genuine cables are not tricky to get hold of.  You're mechanic is about to do a bunch of guessing at your expense.  Second one in the last couple of weeks!

You'd be surprised at how many garages are clueless on these handbrakes, which is pretty poor as these types of brakes were fitted on loads of Toyotas and Hondas and others too!

You could look in the 'how to' section, or do a search, but I'll save you the bother:

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68798.0

Given the info you got from the seller, I think the callipers could do with a service.

Show the 'how to' to your mechanic??

[Flat-land-Matt]

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks for your reply, it's the first time I've used this garage, so I was pretty dubious when they said they thought the cable was wrong. I'll try and get under the car to see if I can still see a part no. on it to prove the point.

They did say the OSR caliper was seized, the previous owner had all the calipers refurbished by BCS in 2018, but the car has only done about 1500 miles since then, so I suppose it's possible. Annoyingly BCS said their 'lifetime warranty' wasn't transferable, despite me having the receipt and photos of the calipers before they were refitted.

The garage also went straight to 'you need a new caliper' rather than any discussion of getting it refurbished.

I think I may continue the search for another suitable garage, as they didn't seem particularly willing to talk me through the issue and options, and I got the impression they didn't see many mk3s. 

[Carolyn]

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks for your reply, it's the first time I've used this garage, so I was pretty dubious when they said they thought the cable was wrong. I'll try and get under the car to see if I can still see a part no. on it to prove the point.

They did say the OSR caliper was seized, the previous owner had all the calipers refurbished by BCS in 2018, but the car has only done about 1500 miles since then, so I suppose it's possible. Annoyingly BCS said their 'lifetime warranty' wasn't transferable, despite me having the receipt and photos of the calipers before they were refitted.

The garage also went straight to 'you need a new caliper' rather than any discussion of getting it refurbished.

I think I may continue the search for another suitable garage, as they didn't seem particularly willing to talk me through the issue and options, and I got the impression they didn't see many mk3s. 

Sounds as though the sliders need cleaning and lubricating.  1/2 hour job. 

[mr2garageswindon]

The garage probably doesn't want to have the car sat on a ramp for a week while the calipers are being re done as its much quicker for them to bolt on a new part (With % mark up as all garages do) bleed it through and send you on your way.
I have a Kia sportage sat in my workshop, no calipers available apart from main dealer 3 week wait at £385 each so I sent them off to Bigg Red who do my calipers.
It took a week, less than £200 for the pair happy days.

As Caroline points out the more you can do with help from the club the better as you know you won't be getting just fobbed off.

Pretty sure the OE cables have different colours at the end by the caliper, could be worth checking they are correct as 2 different cable lengths.

Hope you get it sorted soon.
Jon.

[Dev]

The fix is generally very easy if it is the cable adjustment as Carolyn pointed out. You can actually do it without taking off the console with a 1/4" ratchet and 10mm socket if you can feel for the nut with your fingers. Most people who do their own brakes and the independents do not do this last step of the process and do not notice a difference (you should always do the procedure every time the rears pads are done) but if you had a situation where one of the pads on one side wore down more than the other the cable lengths will be uneven and the hand brake needs to be reset.

It will appear that one side of the cable  is shorter than the other and that is the give away.  This mechanism works by balancing out the differences in pad wear so that the parking brake force on the pads is even and self adjusting.

The caliper being sized is a good possibility if it was refurbished.  There are many issues with the refurbishing process that makes them not worth it over a good used set of rear calipers.

[cyclehead]

I'm guessing your cables are seizing.  They are made from mild steel spiral housing, wrapped in heavy rubber sheath.  When moisture gets inside, the steel rusts and seizes the inner cable liner.   The brake lever will then act like a "ratchet", where you pull the handbrake lever and the brakes apply weakly.  When you release the lever the brakes remain tight, and the cable goes slack at the handle.  You can feel the handle is really floppy with no resistance.   Occasionally the brakes will ease off during driving, and the cable tension will return to the brake handle.  Quick fix is to disconnect them entirely at the rear calipers - just pull the two clevis pins.   The only permanent fix is to replace both cables - a painful job.