Are leather seats actually leather?

[Mr Lazy]

I hope this is the correct section for this - I think I would loosely call it maintenance.

I read a comment by @shnazzle in a different thread that the FL seats are pleather, which I assume means that they are fake leather. Disappointing as they were a relatively costly option on new cars, although I have suspected it for a long time. I recall treating the "leather" on my first MR2 that I had five years ago with leather conditioner and it seemed to just stay on the surface looking greasy rather than being absorbed.

So this raises two questions: Firstly, are any of the panels real leather at all? I am aware that often car seats have real leather faces with fake leather backs and sides. Secondly, if they are not real leather, is there any way of treating/protecting it? My seats are currently in good condition and I would like them to stay that way. I intend to swap over the two seat backs (once I've worked out how to remove the plastic trim) so that they wear more evenly, but I don't want the small scratches that are present to turn into massive wear patches over time.

[shnazzle]

It's what I was told by Simon at Hide'n'Seat. He's a professional retrimmer, he did my interior and he certainly knows his stuff. 
My FL interior was the first he'd done and he said it was an absolute pain in the ass. He priced me up based on his experience with PFL seats. 
He then went onto say that the leather on the PFL was of much better quality and he kind of sneered at the crap that was on the FL. He said, smell it... Does it smell like leather? The answer was no... 
What I can say is that I do now have real leather and the difference is immediately noticeable. 
As for treating it, you're absolutely right, it's very different from real leather. It doesn't need to be "fed" as much as real leather. You'll notice little to no difference between an interior thta has never been treated and one that has been religiously smothered with leather protect. The material is almost impermeable. It takes to dyes very differently as well. It works, but it doesn't "soak" in.

You pay for the upgrade over cloth. The cloth ones, in my opinion, look a bit drab. The material is very thin and deforms quickly around the holsters. Door cards start to look a bit saggy. 
The "leather" option looks a lot nicer for longer. 
Same logic went into the roof. It's vinyl. Not mohair or any kind of fabric, but, it's a hell of a lot more durable and easy to clean than mohair. And cheaper for Toyota.

[Mr Lazy]

Interesting Shnazzle, thanks. Is yours the one on the Hide 'N' Seat website with grey leather? It looks very well fitted. One of the things I looked out for when I bought my car was good condition 'leather'. I'm not going to get it recovered, but I guess I'll just have to be careful getting in and out.

[Call the midlife!]

Automotive leather is plastic coated, more or less, to make it more hard wearing and protect the dyes so conditioners don't really work as they sit on the plastic coating.

[shnazzle]

Interesting Shnazzle, thanks. Is yours the one on the Hide 'N' Seat website with grey leather? It looks very well fitted. One of the things I looked out for when I bought my car was good condition 'leather'. I'm not going to get it recovered, but I guess I'll just have to be careful getting in and out.

I know which you mean. No that's not mine. 

Mine is grey and red. But, same quality.

[cptspaulding]

He said, smell it... Does it smell like leather?

You know I was doing similar experiments on bike saddles? You'd think educational establishments would be more supportive of research work, but au contraire!   

[Chilli Girl]

I thought they were leather.  They were an optional extra back in Chilli's time and cost the first owner £750 to have "leather seats".

[Mr Lazy]

He said, smell it... Does it smell like leather?

You know I was doing similar experiments on bike saddles? You'd think educational establishments would be more supportive of research work, but au contraire!   

@cptspaulding next time, wait for the rider to get off before you start sniffing the saddle!

[deviantmr-s]

Call the Midlife! is correct.

Let's just say I have a thing for leather    and have worked with various hides/leathers across various mediums for over, lets say a number of years, (not giving my age away lol). I can only comment on my experience...

Virtually any modern day car will have leather that has been coated with a water-based, clear protective coating to aid in wear and tear... they have to take a lot of activity lol. 

This also means that virtually all leather found within a car is going to be dyed first with some form of colour, then coated with colour pigments to create a completely uniform colour, and then coated with a clear protective coating. So what you are actually cleaning and conditioning is not natural leather, but generally natural leather that has been enhanced, re-coloured, reconfigured, and coated.

Reduced down to its most basic understanding, because car leather has been coated with this clear protective resin coating, the reality is that you are cleaning and conditioning a form of plastic; plastic that is both flexible and clear.

I take my hat off to the professionals out there, and as always you get what you pay for. Large production of generic seats are not top quality leather/hide as opposed to bespoke leather seats.

You cannot beat the smell of quality leather. 😁

[Call the midlife!]

Just to add more juice to the squeeze, leather (cow hide) comes in various thicknesses from different areas of the beast, it is also pared down as many times as is feasible or for the intended application. One full hide can be split to make at least two of lesser thickness, generally speaking, so you pretty much get what you pay for in terms of quality, suppleness and wear resistance etc.
And different breeds give different quality hides, so higher end marques like RR or Aston Martin will have a better grade of hide from the off.

[paulj]

And different breeds give different quality hides, so higher end marques like RR or Aston Martin will have a better grade of hide from the off.

Apparently Bentley only use male hides to avoid the irregularity of stretch marks.....

[Call the midlife!]

And different breeds give different quality hides, so higher end marques like RR or Aston Martin will have a better grade of hide from the off.

Apparently Bentley only use male hides to avoid the irregularity of stretch marks.....

Sounds about right, although I suppose it depends on what they're going into, I know RR cut around blemishes for infills etc.

[steveash]

I think manufacturers are far too conservative with interiors. I've always fancied getting my seats retrimmed in Harris tweed. I may be a bit odd though.

[deviantmr-s]

Being a tactile person, the mother of all leathers in my opinion is full-grain, it is untreated, uncorrected and 100% animal hide. Toughness of the tightly packed surface fibers that shows scars etc. The leather is hard to work with but very expensive.

Top grain, also known as aniline, is the next best thing in terms of quality and is also known as 'corrected' leather, with the surface being buffed away so that the remaining layer is uniform in appearance. The look comes at the cost of durability as the top layer is removed giving a uniform appearance . Generally this has been dyed, but not treated in any other way.

Semi-aniline, to which I believe most vehicle manufacturers use, has been dyed and given a protective coating. This makes it less susceptible to staining but also takes away some of the softness that leather is known for.

Split Grain is near the bottom of the list. It is cheap and more fragile. This leather is has a uniform look but doesn't possess the same feel as the more expensive, and certainly does not smell or feel as good.

When the layers of hide are separated from one another, if a layer is too thin or flawed for standard use, this is bicast leather. The hide is coated entirely in polyurethane for color and preservation. This means that although it retains the look of leather, there is no actual contact between the leather and your skin sadly.

Then there is... is that really leather?!

Bonded leather needs to contain at least 15-17% actual leather I think, using scraps from the leather making process they are ground together into a pulp and mixed with polyurethane before being flattened into sheets of bonded leather. This I would call p type leather, nasty stuff.

The past few years Toyota has offered a SofTex interior, a synthetic leather seat material that is designed for wear, cleaning and spills. Apparently it weighs about half as much as genuine leather and is soft to the touch. It reflects sunlight which means they don't get warm like traditional leather seats do.

Your leather seats are leather, just a different grade to maybe what you expected.

[Call the midlife!]

I covered some parts of my diy centre console and armrests in bonded leather, it did the job but it'll be coming off again at some point as it's not very good under your elbows for 8 hours a day 😂

[Joesson]

I think manufacturers are far too conservative with interiors. I've always fancied getting my seats retrimmed in Harris tweed. I may be a bit odd though.

What ever tickles your fancy, and tweed probably would!

[Zxrob]

It's what I was told by Simon at Hide'n'Seat. He's a professional retrimmer, he did my interior and he certainly knows his stuff.

Brings back memories, Simon did my 350z roadster and made a fantastic job, pics are on his website, red and black interior

Rob

[Mr Lazy]

Thanks everyone. It looks like all I can do then is to swap over the seat backs for even wear as conditioning is pointless. That or fit Harris treed covers

[Call the midlife!]

Thanks everyone. It looks like all I can do then is to swap over the seat backs for even wear as conditioning is pointless. That or fit Harris treed covers

You could get a furniture clinic/doctor kit and do a home refurb, strip the sealant, clean the leather, apply some filler where required and then dye and re seal.

[Mr Lazy]

Maybe in the future, but they are actually in pretty good condition. I just wanted to keep them that was.

[Mr Lazy]

"Treed", "was", agh! I keep making typos!