Two Problems Today (possibly related) - help to diagnose?

[Enjay]

I've just been on a run with my 2 (y2k PFL with standard engine and gearbox) and I now have some problems with it.  Perhaps someone here will be able to help me diagnose them?

Problem 1: After about 50 miles, I noticed that when I slowed right down there was an unpleasant metallic rubbing sound.  It actually sounded a bit like the noise you might get if a car has been sitting for a while and for the the first half mile or so there is a bit of surface rust on the brake discs making a noise.  However, it does not seem to be brake related because a) they are working fine and b) pressing the brakes did not affect the sound.

The noise did seem to be at the wheel end of things though - as I sped up, the sound seemed to speed up with the car speed, not the engine speed, and pressing the clutch pedal down didn't change the noise.  Above 20 MPH though, the sound stopped being noticeable.  Other than that, the car seemed to be driving fine until...

Problem 2: a mile or so before getting home, I noticed the clutch felt "weird" as I moved off at a junction.  When I got home, I depressed the clutch fully so that I could put the car into reverse and then when I tried to lift up the pedal, it stayed on the floor.  I hooked my foot behind it and lifted the pedal and it suddenly pinged up to the top (I'd taken it out of gear).  I was then able to press the clutch down, engage reverse and then bring the clutch up to the bite.  The problem now was that the clutch would not disengage again when I pressed the pedal, so the car kept moving backwards and I had to force it to stall by pressing the brake.  This sequence of events (both the pedal sticking to the floor and the not disengaging problem) was repeated several times until I finally managed to manoeuvre the car into my driveway.

I don't know if the two problems are likely to be related or not, but they certainly both happened on the same run.  The car seemed fine the last time I took it out (about a week ago).

I'm going to guess that problem 2 probably means that the clutch has gone - it's just that I have never experienced symptoms quite like that with a failed clutch.  Problem 1 could be a bearing of some sort I guess.

Any ideas?

[Ardent]

my amateur guess is the clutch release bearing.

The pros will be a long in due course

[tricky1138]

Sorry no idea with problem 2, but I'd guess problem 1 might be a brake shield coming loose.

I've had the same issue on mine and sounds like the exact symptoms as I had. Try figure out which wheel the noise is coming from, take of the wheel and I'd guess the shield will probably fall off.

[ucb]

Is problem 1 not a sticking handbrake? Sounds awfully like the problem I had with my old volvo and my wife's golf

[Enjay]

Thanks for the input so far.

I don't think it's a sticking handbrake because the handbrake seems to be working just fine and there is no evidence of any drag from the brake being stuck on slightly (I can push the car quite easily, there was no evidence of it slowing unduly when coasting or the engine finding it harder to move the car and nothing was unduly hot around the wheel area either).

I'll take the wheels off tomorrow though.  A brake shield does seem like a possibility.

I was also thinking clutch bearing might be a suspect for #2

[Carolyn]

The brake noise could just be a pad wear indicator starting to touch the disc.  Whatever it is, a wheel-off inspection will pinpoint the problem.

The clutch problem is almost certainly a broken pressure plate.  Time for a new clutch.

[Enjay]

I do like it when a knowledgeable person says "almost certainly". [Edit: I just realised that sounds sarcastic - it wasn't meant to at all.  I mean when someone who knows what they are talking about says "almost certainly" I know that I've probably been given the correct answer.]

I haven't had a chance to get the wheels off today because it's been raining quite heavily, but I do still plan to do that.  I don't recall when the pads were last changed, but it wasn't that long ago miles-wise at least.  Of course, that doesn't mean they haven't worn down because it was that recently either.  It was the fact that pressing the brakes didn't seem to have any impact on the sound that made me think the noise might have been related to something non-brakey but it does sound very much like a brake noise of some sort.  By most comments, it does seem that problem 1 and problem 2 are probably not related and them happening at the same time is just coincidence.

Broken clutch pressure plate.  I've never had a broken one before, only worn out friction surfaces (and other problems like snapped cables).  I guess that would explain why I've never experienced symptoms quite like this before.  I did think a replacement was almost certainly on the cards.

Thank you.

[Enjay]

Well, bad weather and other tasks took priority, so I didn't get around to taking the wheels off until yesterday evening.  I jumped in the car to move it to a slightly more convenient place and this time the clutch was completely gone. i.e. press the clutch pedal and, with a loud clunk, it went straight to the floor (and stayed there) but did not disengage, and hooking my foot behind the pedal and levering it back up made the pedal jump back to the unpressed position, but still no change in actual engagement of the clutch.  Given that things were basically entirely knackered, I didn't see much point in taking the wheels off.

Fortunately, the clutch was stuck in such a way that it was effectively engaged all of the time.  I know how to start a car and drive it/change gears without needing to press the clutch.  I only live a short distance from my local garage via a quiet country road so, with a family member in their car in front and another behind, I drove to the garage and dropped it off.  I guess that it won't be a cheap bill, but I don't have the time (or the equipment these days) to do a clutch change.  So its over to the professionals to do it.  They have been told about the grinding noise too and will track that down as well.

[Ardent]

I suppose  "cheap" is a relative term.
Sure someone here not long ago had a clutch and other work. Sub £400 seemed reasonable value for what they had.
Clutches in terms of parts are not expensive. Esp. A standard LUK.

[pauls0212]

Have you checked clutch fluid?
as in is there any left
its next to the brake fluid i think

[Enjay]

To give some closure to this thread rather than leave it hanging, the clutch was indeed a broken pressure plate.  So the garage replaced it with a Valeo unit. 

The MOT was due in early September, so I asked for that to be done too.  Rear brake caliper needed to be replaced (that's them both replaced over the last 3 MOTs now).  My wife did most of the dealing with the garage (because I'm back at work but she's still working from home), so I didn't actually find out if that was responsible for the brake-like noise or not, but that's certainly gone.  I'll find out next time I speak to them.

And while all that was being done, I took the lazy way out and got them to do a full service too.

The car is working very nicely.  As I said, the brake-like noise is gone and the clutch is working well.  The pedal feels lighter than it was before but I'm already used to the new feel.

Obviously, getting all of that done wasn't cheap, but it wasn't ridiculously expensive either and my 2 is ready for another year.  21 years old next year.

[Joesson]

Glad to hear your problems are resolved and that @Carolyn again confirmed her Resident Diagnostic Expert position.

[Ardent]

@Enjay

Well played. You are happy. The 2 is happy, having been shown some TLC.
The brakes will need bedding in, so best thing is to get some miles in. Enjoy.

[Enjay]

I picked it up yesterday and definitely took the long way home.   Today was really grotty weather so I didn't take it to work, but tomorrow's forecast looks better.  First chance I get, I'll get myself over to the West coast of Scotland.  Some great roads and scenery over there to help me bed in the brakes.

[Chilli Girl]

Say hello to Dumfries for me today - Foxy has experienced some great roads there. Enjoy,