Squeaky brakes and greasing

[househead]

So over the last few weeks one of my front brakes has started to squeak. I know there's a decent bit left on the pads as I had them off a month or so back to switch out my slider/guide pins and fiddle with the metal clips that hold the pads (mine were just flopping about in them until I did and this was causing a clunking sound - now fixed).

Where should I be greasing and with what kind of grease? I have copper grease, lithium grease, and a smidge of slider pin grease left (possibly I didn't use enough of this, I used one sachet that came with the pins on all 4 of the front sliders).

Also, my fronts don't have the OEM anti-squeal shims ... is this common and should I bother getting a set? I read something about them not fitting with all non-OEM pads.

[Ardent]

Cannot help on much of what you ask. But can say the stock shims work fine and dandy with pagid pads.
When mine were replaced. Attention was paid to cleaning up any contact areas with a small file, just to remove any rust high spots where the pads sit in the carriers.

[househead]

Cannot help on much of what you ask. But can say the stock shims work fine and dandy with pagid pads.
When mine were replaced. Attention was paid to cleaning up any contact areas with a small file, just to remove any rust high spots where the pads sit in the carriers.

I'm not even sure what pads these are as they came with the car when I bought it earlier this year. Any identifying marks seem to be long gone! I think the next set will be EBC yellowstuff after reading around on here and elsewhere.

[james_ly]

Often I find with brakes a re-bedding in session helps... driving my MR2 I find I barely use the brakes in normal driving, so I think they need a workout to keep them in shape.

[Carolyn]

Sounds like a pad is dragging ever so slightly.

Get some Mintex 'Ceratec'.  Comes in a tube sufficient for quite a few brake jobs.  Use on sliders and a very light smear on the back of the pad...

[Bossworld]

I ceratec the sliders, after cleaning out any remaining goop first.

Rightly or wrongly I copperslip the backs of the pads.

The brakes on my MR2 are outstanding in comparison to the family wagon so something must be right with the setup. Have found I've needed to slightly file the pad tabs on certain brands.

[househead]

I'll pick up some of this ceratec you guys speak of!

They're actually performing at their usual amazing levels, but the squeak is very irritating and also a little embarrassing!

The copper grease I have does say on the back of it one of the primary uses is for the back of brake pads. It rightly does capitalise the word BACK

[shnazzle]

I wouldn't use copper grease on the sliders. Frankly I've been advised never to do that, but instead us a silicon grease.
I believe that came from the master himself, Steve@D1

Just did a historic search in my chats with Steve.
Indeed;. Silicon for anythihg that contacts rubber. So, slider pins.
I asked if I could use anti-seize (copper, AL1100, etc) on the caliper bolts and again he said yes, but ONLY on the threads

[househead]

I wouldn't use copper grease on the sliders. Frankly I've been advised never to do that, but instead us a silicon grease.
I believe that came from the master himself, Steve@D1

Indeed. I wasn't planning on doing ... the slider pin kits came with a tiny tube of grease which I believe is silicone based. It's red and shiny. Two kits and two tubes but I only used one when I installed the pair last.

Good to knew re: threads tho!

[moredun]

ProSlip Brake Grease Kit - OEM Caliper Pin Grease FOR TOYOTA AND MERCEDES

 

[thetyrant]

Ceratec should never go on slider pins/posts for that you want a silicone high temp lubricant, copperslip will work better than ceratec on slider pins but its not recommeneded as above because its not rubber friendly, silicone lube is one for the slider pins.

The Ceratec is for the pads metal to metal areas to help prevent squeal etc however i prefer copperslip personally and never had an issue on road or track, i found the ceratec goes hard under high temps on track so dont use it anymore for this reason as it can cause pads to bind at ends if it does go hard.

[shnazzle]

Ceratec should never go on slider pins/posts for that you want a silicone high temp lubricant, copperslip will work better than ceratec on slider pins but its not recommeneded as above because its not rubber friendly, silicone lube is one for the slider pins.

The Ceratec is for the pads metal to metal areas to help prevent squeal etc however i prefer copperslip personally and never had an issue on road or track, i found the ceratec goes hard under high temps on track so dont use it anymore for this reason as it can cause pads to bind at ends if it does go hard.

That's what I've had with copperslip, which is why I've switched to Ceratec! It would form a hard sticky residue on the back of pads. But then having said that... Who cares.. Pads go to the bin anyway

[thetyrant]

Ceratec should never go on slider pins/posts for that you want a silicone high temp lubricant, copperslip will work better than ceratec on slider pins but its not recommeneded as above because its not rubber friendly, silicone lube is one for the slider pins.

The Ceratec is for the pads metal to metal areas to help prevent squeal etc however i prefer copperslip personally and never had an issue on road or track, i found the ceratec goes hard under high temps on track so dont use it anymore for this reason as it can cause pads to bind at ends if it does go hard.

That's what I've had with copperslip, which is why I've switched to Ceratec! It would form a hard sticky residue on the back of pads. But then having said that... Who cares.. Pads go to the bin anyway

Yes Copperslip can do it to a degree as well but the Ceratec i found worse with much more solid mass after lots of heat, only really an issue with track temps though not so much of an issue on the road where either is fine really, ceratec better at noise absorption but often that just brakes needing a good workout

[Carolyn]

It's a case of 'horses for courses'.

Ceratec is excellent for normal road use.

If you're frying the bakes on the track.  Different matter.

[james_ly]

Interesting to hear different views. Here is an article I found supporting Ceratec
https://mintex.com/copper-slip-vs-ceratec/?lang=en-gbr

[thetyrant]

Interesting to hear different views. Here is an article I found supporting Ceratec
https://mintex.com/copper-slip-vs-ceratec/?lang=en-gbr

There will always be some difference of opinion like all things, the article you linked was produced by mintex so its bound to favour the ceratec  

Biggest issue i see with any of these products is applying WAY to much of it, people seem to think the more you put on the better it works but all is does is make a mucky mess/debris attraction and risks contaminating the friction material, thin smear on metal to metal areas is all thats needed and then brakes should be inspected/serviced/cleaned & greased as least once a year, many just fit new brakes and never touch them until pads are down to metal which is why they have issues in long term.
Rear pads on these cars are a pain as you need to disconnect the handbrake but i still have mine out every few trackdays to inspect/clean/grease etc.

[househead]

So I jumped the gun and got this done before investing in the ceratec (which I'll pickup for next time).

Cleaned the back of the pads and the side elbows that fit in the pad carriers. Took the carriers out and cleaned those and the bits of the caliper housing they sit in. Took my guide pins out again, cleaned them down and regreased with the stuff that came with them. Q-tipped the gunk out of the insides of the guide pin "tunnels" and put them back. Very light smear of copper grease between calipers and pad carriers and between carriers and pad elbows, and a light smear of copper grease on the back of the pads. Quick test drive and all feels well. Tried to get the brakes a-squeaking and couldn't, so all good.

[shnazzle]

... many just fit new brakes and never touch them until pads are down to metal which is why they have issues in long term.
....

That's a very important and valid point. And one I fall foul of many times. The difference just in a cleaned and rebuilt brakes is amazing, and really helps for longevity.
It realistically wouldn't take me more than an hour for all 4 corners a year, if I did it yearly. Instead, when I do get to the rear brakes there tends to be some seizing because I've left it too long.

Very good shout

[thetyrant]

So I jumped the gun and got this done before investing in the ceratec (which I'll pickup for next time).

Cleaned the back of the pads and the side elbows that fit in the pad carriers. Took the carriers out and cleaned those and the bits of the caliper housing they sit in. Took my guide pins out again, cleaned them down and regreased with the stuff that came with them. Q-tipped the gunk out of the insides of the guide pin "tunnels" and put them back. Very light smear of copper grease between calipers and pad carriers and between carriers and pad elbows, and a light smear of copper grease on the back of the pads. Quick test drive and all feels well. Tried to get the brakes a-squeaking and couldn't, so all good.

Sounds like you did a good job, i wouldnt worry about the ceratec the copperslip will work just fine

[thetyrant]

... many just fit new brakes and never touch them until pads are down to metal which is why they have issues in long term.
....

That's a very important and valid point. And one I fall foul of many times. The difference just in a cleaned and rebuilt brakes is amazing, and really helps for longevity.
It realistically wouldn't take me more than an hour for all 4 corners a year, if I did it yearly. Instead, when I do get to the rear brakes there tends to be some seizing because I've left it too long.

Very good shout

Indeed and im so fussy with brakes being my job i like mine to be as good as they can all the time, i have front pads out every 2 months maximum between track events to servicing and check everything, rear pads i tend to do a bit less due to extra hassle but still probably 2-3 times a year, i bleed the brakes every time im working on them as well and amazing how much difference it makes keeping everything tiptop like this.

On my daily bmw which is 99% road use the brakes dont generally get as much love, unless im doing a rare trackday then they get the same treatment beforehand, usually though its just once or twice a year when doing oil etc i give them a quick going over and bleed, just did them other day when swapping onto my winter wheels/tyres (which was first time since i put summer tyres on in march!) and brakes are awesome again now

Another tip for those working on these brakes or having issues is to take the pad carrier/bracket off and pop out the stainless slider plates clipped in each end, rust can get nasty under these pushing them up and causing pads to be tight or even bind on, popping them off and then scraping/wire brushing any rust off the recess in carrier and the plates before refitting allows everything to move as it should .

A basic brake service like this used to be standard practice in garages/dealerships at least once a year but they are not even looked at these days until a problem crops up

[househead]

A basic brake service like this used to be standard practice in garages/dealerships at least once a year but they are not even looked at these days until a problem crops up

And yet prices only seem to change one-way over time!

I still have my rears to look at but I think I'll commit to the "at least once a year" club with this.