Hass Stage II turbo is here!

[Anonymous]

see what im talking about. open your eyes Mark

[markiii]

we've discussed this in PM we aren't going to discuss it again.

[Anonymous]

whatever you say Mark. whatever you say.

[heathstimpson]

Yes back on topic ladies as this is the super Hass topic which I also nearly recently bought but cannot unfortunately justify at the mo  s:? :? s:?  But I would still like a run in Mark or Dan's to appreciate what might have been  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

I'll take you out at the cat-gut meet matey, if you can make it along after the rugby.

And if the stupid thing is actually working by then!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[heathstimpson]

I'll take you out at the cat-gut meet matey, if you can make it along after the rugby.

And if the stupid thing is actually working by then!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Nice one Dan I'll take you up on that  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

Just in case anybody decides to go down the Hass route and wants to install the Krankvents, here's my* simple guide of where they should go!

*Not really mine, as I spent 30 mins on the phone with Mark who told me where they should go. But it's my post  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:


Diagram (viewed from directly above the engine):


1= Brass-coloured tapping before TB
2= Brass coloured tapping from crankcase, aka breather
3= Black coloured tapping after TB
4= Black coloured tapping from crankcase, aka PCV
5= Intake manifold
6= Throttle body
7= Spark plugs
8= Engine block


No. 1 should be capped off tightly (how you do this is up to you, I've used a piece of rubber hose with a bolt in the top).
No. 2 should have the larger Krankvent connected by hose, with the air only being allowed out of the crankcase (blow into one end and you'll see which way round it should go). The other end of the KV can be left to vent to atmosphere.
No. 3 should have the original black tube still into it, but...
No. 4 should have the smaller Krankvent connected by hose, with the air only being allowed out of the crankcase, towards No. 3. The other end has the black tubing still on it, which in turn goes into No. 3. In other words, you tee the Krankvent into the tube.


That's a very basic set-up, but will work as it was designed to. You can add a catchcan to collect the crap that may exit from the Krankvents, but it's not strictly necessary and that's a far more complicated setup. At least, it is for a n00b like me, although it is something I will do one day.



Something further to add (please stop me if you're fed-up with Hass-problem related posts!  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  ), if you happen to lose whatever you've blanked off No. 1 with, you end up with a massive boost leak and (since it's post-MAF) your engine will run very lean and the car will throw a CEL. It'll also cause the car to stall when you come to a complete stop with your foot on the clutch. Now, who can guess how I know this...?  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Tem]

I just installed them inbetween both lines. Just cutting both lines in the middle and inserting the vent and pulling the stock cover over them. You see a bulge, but you'd never know it's not stock  s8) s8)

I thought they were supposed to go like that, but I'm not sure. It works anyway, there's plenty of vacuum at idle and I don't seem to be consuming oil, so it must be working...

[Anonymous]

That would work just as well (as it apparently does!), I'm just sharing the information that was passed between myself and Mark this evening. Sean has a slightly different setup involving a small filter coming out of the larger KV (I think), and that works too.

[spit]

Hmmmm.....I'm reconsidering my BOV and Actuator reference lines now (3&1 in your diagram Dan). This is one to file away for later methinks..... thanks.

[markiii]

I just installed them inbetween both lines. Just cutting both lines in the middle and inserting the vent and pulling the stock cover over them. You see a bulge, but you'd never know it's not stock  s8) s8)

I thought they were supposed to go like that, but I'm not sure. It works anyway, there's plenty of vacuum at idle and I don't seem to be consuming oil, so it must be working...

it works yes, but on boost the cnrankvent coming off the breather will see boost pressure, as a result the crankvent will never open and expel airpulses from teh crankcase.

While it solves teh issue of pressurising the cranckase it doesn't give you the apparent benefit of a vaccuum in their either.

[Anonymous]

No. 1 should be capped off tightly (how you do this is up to you, I've used a piece of rubber hose with a bolt in the top).

No. 2 should have the larger Krankvent connected by hose, with the air only being allowed out of the crankcase (blow into one end and you'll see which way round it should go). The other end of the KV can be left to vent to atmosphere.

I dont think your getting the full benefit of true one-way vents by blocking #1 and venting #2 to atmo.
My #2 goes right back into #1 providing the "positive" in the PVC.
In other words, leave the two stock hoses in place and insert the KV's inline with the flow away from the engine in both cases.
Most of the time, I';m under vacuum so most of the time my crankcase fumes are getting recycled as they should. Under boost no ventilation occurs.

[markiii]

I disagree, the crankvent in the breather line 1-2 only allows air out when the pressure is sufficient enough to overcome the valve. If it can only do this under vaccuum in the intake manifiold yoru not getting full benefit of the vaccuum effect in the crankcase.

[Tem]

I just installed them inbetween both lines. Just cutting both lines in the middle and inserting the vent and pulling the stock cover over them. You see a bulge, but you'd never know it's not stock  s8) s8)

I thought they were supposed to go like that, but I'm not sure. It works anyway, there's plenty of vacuum at idle and I don't seem to be consuming oil, so it must be working...

it works yes, but on boost the cnrankvent coming off the breather will see boost pressure, as a result the crankvent will never open and expel airpulses from the crankcase.

While it solves the issue of pressurising the cranckase it doesn't give you the apparent benefit of a vaccuum in their either.

The "krankvent guy" on SC assured me it could still create vacuum under boost.

Well, basically he explained it in detail how come it's possible and I didn't get most of it, so I just took his word for it  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[Anonymous]

Under boost no ventilation occurs.

This is supposedly incorrect as TEM posted.

IIRC, The KV guy explained that  it does it in a ratcheting effect for each 'putt' of the pistons. So it lets the vapors out but not back in.
Its this rapid fluttering of the valve that kills all other vent systems and is one reason why the KV's are patented (Or so he says)
Larger KV inline between #2valve cover #1ThrottlePlate


Smaller KV inline between #4PCV Valve #3IntakeManifold

[Anonymous]

Heres what we're talking about having both KV's connected on both ends.

The KVS™ works by letting the pressure out but not letting the aerosol return to the crankcase. When the pistons start moving upward, a partial vacuum is created in the crankcase and is maintained by the KVS from that point on.

Durability:

"... it proved to be very difficult to find a valve that could withstand the demands placed upon it. Every type of PCV valve was tried but if they worked at all -- they quickly died!  Air reactor valves worked better but also died. Prototypes using reed, umbrella, flapper, check ball & spring, and every other known valve design was tested. All these designs either didn't work or failed at some point.

The valve material itself is also very unique. It is the same material used in diaphragms that control the flow of coolant through nuclear reactors! Of course, the material must NEVER FAIL or there will be a meltdown! The KVS will last indefinitely. We have never seen any indications of wear, even under the most severe race applications"

[markiii]

even so, if boost pressure is theother sideof teh valve air can't escape, so the motion of the puistons will only expel air when the intake is under vaccuum.

[spit]

Dumb question from someone lower on the knowledge curve......

Should the stock PCV (@ #4) be removed if you're putting in a KV, or doesn't it matter?

[Slacey]

No, leave the stock PCV in.

[Anonymous]

even so, if boost pressure is theother sideof the valve air can't escape, so the motion of the puistons will only expel air when the intake is under vaccuum.

What you say makes sense and Im all confused about again. I had assumed that under boost, both KV valves would slam shut and no ventilation would occur BUT the crankcase would still remain under a vacuum somehow. With one vented to atmo as you sugest I see how it all might work but the instructions I got from "tat crankvent guy ED?" were to connect up both ends of both KV to create a closed system...

I've contacted the MFG to get clarification on maintaining PCV and crankcase vacuum under boosted conditions.

[Anonymous]

Markiii - You are RIGHT! - Vent the #1 to atmo and block off the pre-TB flange. Good Catch!  I sent him the Ekona's diagram from this thread.

Heres the response:
====================================

Bill,

I assume that #1 is under boost. If so, you are correct that boost closes both KV's! Not a good thing.

The problem is with the valve cover KV. This must be vented to atmosphere or air in box where filter is. Most just run to atmosphere.

Ted  w www.ET-Performance.com w  
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sherman, Bill [mailto:BSherman@sharis.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:46 AM
To:  e mailto:info@ET-Performance.com">info@ET-Performance.com e
Cc: HOME (E-mail)
Subject: Turbo KV questions

 

Hello,

Several month ago I purchased 11 of the turbo KV for application in boosted 1.8l 4 cylinder Toyota engines.

All seems to be working well but we wonder if we've hooked them up properly. I searched the website and didnt see this question addressed.


Referring to the diagram, if theres a KV between 1 and 2 and another between 3 and 4 with the flow away from the block then how do they maintain a  vacuum under boost when both ends of both KV's are subjected to boost pressure? The only way I see this working is if #1 is blocked off with a hose and bolt and the KV on #2 is vented to atmo. However the instructions seem to indicate that both ends of both KV's must be connected.

Thanks
Bill
Oregon

[Anonymous]

+1 for Mark and his excellent brain!  s:D s:D

Good reply from Ted at ET, although after reading his reply it's now clear that his instructions are anything but. Still, at least we now have a definitive answer.

[Tem]

Thanks mark and Bill!  s8) s8)  Better change that then.

[Anonymous]

Fixed!
The bolthead resting on the KV is now blocking the intake flange before the throttleplate.



The paperfilter is just to keep junk out of the KV itself and to tell me if any oil ever comes out of the head.

Considering that 98% of the time the intake is under vacuum Im hoping the consequences of having no PCV flow at all during boost is minimal and limited to:
Pistons fighting pressure on the downstroke - inefficient
Rings not sealing as well as they could - more blow-by but no more than stock.
Fouled oil from blow-by - Dont know how bad - doesnt smell like gas.

[Slacey]

I got my setup right first time  s8) s8)  

(Not to rub it in or anything  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )