Sports cat and piggyback

Started by shnazzle, April 11, 2016, 22:52

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shnazzle

April 11, 2016, 22:52 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Thinking my cat needs replacing not too long from now so figured... Might as well get a 200 cell cat and free up some more flow, and use it as an excuse to finally change to a proper manifold.

BUT...have the emanage blue which is mapped with a stock cat and de-pre-cat stock manifold.

Now I know a remap would be best, but would it be required? Or would it not make a noticeable difference and the current map would be alright.

No idea how much impact a sports cat would make
...neutiquam erro.

JoeCool

#1
April 11, 2016, 22:55 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
With those 2 modifications I'd definitely get a re-map. That's going to be a significantly better flowing exhaust system. May as well take advantage of it. It'll run fine without, but it'll run better with.
2ZZ '02 Roadster

shnazzle

#2
April 11, 2016, 22:59 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Remap is a while off yet, as I'd want it done at Noble, where it was originally  done. Would require some saving

But I'd want it to run well (at least as good as now) before remap.
Reason I'm nervous is because of the impact tiny mods like markiii pipe and k&n panel made.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
...neutiquam erro.

lamcote

#3
April 12, 2016, 08:58 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Can you remind me what impact the mkiii pipe and K&N filter had? Did it cause some problems as a result of being fitted after the last mapping was done?
Thanks
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

shnazzle

#4
April 12, 2016, 09:10 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "lamcote"Can you remind me what impact the mkiii pipe and K&N filter had? Did it cause some problems as a result of being fitted after the last mapping was done?
Thanks

Quite the opposite.
The eManage was mapped on Dave's car (robsonic) which had TTE exhaust, de-pre-cat manifold and gen2 intake. As this was quite similar to mine (minus the intake) I bought his.
My car ran a bit lumpy on it and overfueled a bit though, especially at town-speeds. ECU resets did nothing. Cleaned maf, etc etc.

I added the markiii pipe and lumpiness went away quicker. Still there at low speeds, but went away very quicky.
Then I added the k&n panel filter and now it runs sweet as a nut.

So, hence this post, if those tiny intake changes can make such a difference to running...what will the effect be of freeing up the exhaust?
...neutiquam erro.

lamcote

#5
April 12, 2016, 11:18 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Presumably the standard settings are quite conservative to allow for the inevitable variations in mass produced engines. This is what leaves some scope to improve the power of an engine which is remapped, but the consequences of having a new map specifically set up for that engine is that it then becomes sensitive to even quite small changes.
This would suggest that changing the exhaust will have a noticeable impact on your engine?

Regarding your previous discussions about the eManage map being offset by the standard ECU, if you are going to get Noble to map your engine, you could ask them to explain what they do to avoid this. It has also occurred to me that, if the ECU does override the fueling settings, there will also be ignition timing changes in the new map which the ECU won't change so that could explain why there is still some performance benefits even if the fueling has been overridden.
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

shnazzle

#6
April 12, 2016, 11:25 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "lamcote"It has also occurred to me that, if the ECU does override the fueling settings, there will also be ignition timing changes in the new map which the ECU won't change so that could explain why there is still some performance benefits even if the fueling has been overridden.

It does indeed! How did we not consider this before?
But it does further emphasize that it does seem to be tuned rather specifically to Dave's old car. So yes, big changes to exhaust are likely to have a decent impact.

From the sounds of it the best thing is to get it remapped. Which does make sense, but I was ever hopeful that changing the exhaust might not have that big of an impact.

I doubt we're talking more than 2-3hp, but overall running/fueling/driveability does seem to change noticeably with small N/A mods.

We all know N/A mods are expensive and have little impact, but to me the engine does seem quite sensitive to changes. Even if it doesn't translate to power. Just think of the difference a maf clean makes on the 2. Never felt that on another car to this degree.
...neutiquam erro.

lamcote

#7
April 12, 2016, 11:37 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
It seems to me that N/A mods might have little impact compared to a turbo but from what you say,  I get the distinct impression they appear to be very much worthwhile doing so it is great to get feedback from you (and others) about the changes/benefits (and downsides) that can be achieved. Keep it coming!
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

shnazzle

#8
April 12, 2016, 11:42 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "lamcote"It seems to me that N/A mods might have little impact compared to a turbo but from what you say,  I get the distinct impression they appear to be very much worthwhile doing so it is great to get feedback from you (and others) about the changes/benefits (and downsides) that can be achieved. Keep it coming!

No problem  s:) :) s:)

I'd actually be quite keen on someone having a go in my car to make sure it's not all in my head. Tricky is a likely candidate as he's now had two stock cars, so would be able to tell me what's good and bad about mine compared to stock
...neutiquam erro.

lamcote

#9
April 12, 2016, 12:27 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
The thing that always nags away at me is that I seem to remember seeing a power curve for a mapped 1zz on here. There were two curves a couple of hours apart, the second was quite a lot more powerful than the first. I asked the person who posted it whether anything had been done to change the settings between the two runs and was told something like this; they didn't make any changes but they weren't happy with the first run so did another.
So the question is, did they do an ECU reset and then do another quick power run before the LTFT was able to kick in and undo the fueling map? If so this would show the difference between a fresh remap and one affected by the standard ECU. But it would also suggest that the fuel map probably is overriden.
I can't find the thread at the moment to see exactly what was said but it should be on here somewhere.
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

shnazzle

#10
April 12, 2016, 12:52 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "lamcote"The thing that always nags away at me is that I seem to remember seeing a power curve for a mapped 1zz on here. There were two curves a couple of hours apart, the second was quite a lot more powerful than the first. I asked the person who posted it whether anything had been done to change the settings between the two runs and was told something like this; they didn't make any changes but they weren't happy with the first run so did another.
So the question is, did they do an ECU reset and then do another quick power run before the LTFT was able to kick in and undo the fueling map? If so this would show the difference between a fresh remap and one affected by the standard ECU. But it would also suggest that the fuel map probably is overriden.
I can't find the thread at the moment to see exactly what was said but it should be on here somewhere.

Not sure if that was my (Dave's) map, as I remember someone asking me.
Basically what it was is that they did one run, then tweaked the map a bit, and then dyno'd it again...showing a small increase in power.
...neutiquam erro.

robsonic

#11
April 19, 2016, 19:14 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Yeah that's our map Snazzle. He ran a dyno before he went to lunch then finished it off after. The times are on the map iirc. I think our mileage was about the same and probably your pipe and filter are equal until it gets hot then yours will be better from less heat soak compared to the gen2. Difference still exists from mine being an 53 engine and yours a 55? There will be gains to be had from a cel200 and a remap to yours just depends if £100/hour remap is worth the gain for a few extra ponies etc. it was for me doing it all from scratch but you have a very close match with basically a free map. But it is hard knowing it's not the best it can be!
2006-2016, but the love (and seatbelt covers) have happily passed to my daughter   s]

tricky1138

#12
April 20, 2016, 10:16 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "shnazzle"
Quote from: "lamcote"It seems to me that N/A mods might have little impact compared to a turbo but from what you say,  I get the distinct impression they appear to be very much worthwhile doing so it is great to get feedback from you (and others) about the changes/benefits (and downsides) that can be achieved. Keep it coming!

No problem  s:) :) s:)

I'd actually be quite keen on someone having a go in my car to make sure it's not all in my head. Tricky is a likely candidate as he's now had two stock cars, so would be able to tell me what's good and bad about mine compared to stock

Do I have to read every post on this forum to find out where my name has been mentioned!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
2004 FL, Black, Matt Brace, Team Dynamics Monza R, Tein Springs, TTE Exhaust, heated black leather seats, black leather armrest,  Zunsport grills, Midship front badge,  TRD spoiler, Halo DRLs with LED fogs, large clear wind defector, Krissg kick panels,  small mongos.

1979scotte

#13
April 20, 2016, 10:23 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
You should read every post anyway
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

tricky1138

#14
April 20, 2016, 10:26 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "1979scotte"You should read every post anyway

I do try!   s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
2004 FL, Black, Matt Brace, Team Dynamics Monza R, Tein Springs, TTE Exhaust, heated black leather seats, black leather armrest,  Zunsport grills, Midship front badge,  TRD spoiler, Halo DRLs with LED fogs, large clear wind defector, Krissg kick panels,  small mongos.

shnazzle

#15
April 20, 2016, 10:53 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "tricky1138"
Quote from: "1979scotte"You should read every post anyway

I do try!   s:scared: :scared: s:scared:

haha indeed. I meant to PM you actually! Next week Helen's off on business so maybe I can drive down and you can "seat-of-pants-dyno" my car?  s:) :) s:)
...neutiquam erro.
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