Infected by the upgrade bug!

[Rubber Ducky]

I'm looking at the performance upgrade options and pondering which way to go - any advice gratefully received!

Current engine is a pretty stock 1ZZ. It's done 70k miles and runs fine so still has plenty of life in it. The obvious choices are 2ZZ or slap a turbo onto the 1ZZ. As I see it the relative merits of each are:

2ZZ:

+ It's a well trodden path with plenty of opportunities to glean experience from others.
+ It's as close to a factory spec as possible (I just can't understand why Toyota didn't offer this as a factory option).
+ It's relatively inexpensive.
+ Should be reliable (car will still be my daily driver).
+ Decent MPG when not being thrashed (see above point!)
+ Addicitive sound when in lift. I used to have a VTEC Honda CRX and loved ringing it's neck!
+ The immediate throttle response that you just can't get with a turbo.

1ZZ turbo:

+ Easier conversion to perform.
+ Less risky (not taking a punt on a second hand engine and gearbox).
+ Easy to revert to original spec come resale time.
+ More accessible everyday performance.
+ Higher potential power figures.
+ I can fit a dump valve and be antisocial in Tesco car parks. Or not.

Anything I've missed?

[Anonymous]

Turbo technology come a long way, the throttle responce is a very close thing and couldn't be used as a pro on either. Oh and turbo has more torque making everything well easy.

[shnazzle]

I'm looking at the performance upgrade options and pondering which way to go - any advice gratefully received!

Current engine is a pretty stock 1ZZ. It's done 70k miles and runs fine so still has plenty of life in it. The obvious choices are 2ZZ or slap a turbo onto the 1ZZ. As I see it the relative merits of each are:

2ZZ:

+ It's a well trodden path with plenty of opportunities to glean experience from others.
+ It's as close to a factory spec as possible (I just can't understand why Toyota didn't offer this as a factory option).
+ It's relatively inexpensive.
+ Should be reliable (car will still be my daily driver).
+ Decent MPG when not being thrashed (see above point!)
+ Addicitive sound when in lift. I used to have a VTEC Honda CRX and loved ringing it's neck!
+ The immediate throttle response that you just can't get with a turbo.

1ZZ turbo:

+ Easier conversion to perform.
+ Less risky (not taking a punt on a second hand engine and gearbox).
+ Easy to revert to original spec come resale time.
+ More accessible everyday performance.
+ Higher potential power figures.
+ I can fit a dump valve and be antisocial in Tesco car parks. Or not.

Anything I've missed?

That last point can't be ignored.
It is immensely satisfying scaring old ladies with the dump valve. The game of timing the power and throttle release just right to get the biggest demented squirrel woosh.

I'm on the fence with the options.
I still think, for the way I drive, the 2zz is more my thing. Regardless of the fact that the turbo is massively powerful and addictive.
But if I were to go 2zz,itd have to be on a rebuilt and machined engine.

[JoeCool]

It just comes down to personal preference. Really, you need to drive or at least have experience of a good example of each option. That way you'll get a much clearer idea of what is for you. If you're ever passing through Bucks, feel free to drop me a line and I'll happily demonstrate a 2ZZ.

[cptspaulding]

I gradually convince myself I need moar powah, & then I take it for a hoon up some B roads & realise I love it stock, 1zz. Only difference is the TTE exhaust makes it sound even better. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

[1979scotte]

If you are mechanically gifted 2zz is an easy swap although we have had 1 or 2 who have transplanted dodegy engines.
Saying that i had to replace a turbo last year.
Both return reasonable mpg if you dont ring their necks.
Turbo torque is awesome and makes overtaking and motorways so much more enjoyable.
For me its 2zz for track and turbo for the road.

[s12vea]

Turbo option every time for me

[onion86]

Turbo option every time for me

+1, much more satisfying. I've only been in a Celica 2zz but much prefer the sound of the turbo and the kick of the torque (and the scaring of old ladies of course  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  ).

[shnazzle]

Having thought about it more, go turbo.
For all the reasons you mentioned but also because real world driving is so much easier. Just pulling out onto a dual carriageway without having to rev its nuts off is very nice. Just a gentle squeeze of the throttle, boost kicks in and you're at 70. No fuss.

[s12vea]

Having thought about it more, go turbo.
For all the reasons you mentioned but also because real world driving is so much easier. Just pulling out onto a dual carriageway without having to rev its nuts off is very nice. Just a gentle squeeze of the throttle, boost kicks in and you're at 70. No fuss.

Sounds like you need another turbo in your life  s;) s;)

[shnazzle]

Having thought about it more, go turbo.
For all the reasons you mentioned but also because real world driving is so much easier. Just pulling out onto a dual carriageway without having to rev its nuts off is very nice. Just a gentle squeeze of the throttle, boost kicks in and you're at 70. No fuss.

Sounds like you need another turbo in your life  s;) s;)

Nah. Three would be greedy haha

Put it this way, each time I've gotten out of the turbo 2 and into mine, it's put a smile on my face.
What can I say...I'm addicted to 1zz  s:) s:)  ... or 2zz, unconfirmed.

Mine's just entirely different. I've put all the money into handling, and it has paid off.

[1979scotte]

Having thought about it more, go turbo.
For all the reasons you mentioned but also because real world driving is so much easier. Just pulling out onto a dual carriageway without having to rev its nuts off is very nice. Just a gentle squeeze of the throttle, boost kicks in and you're at 70. No fuss.

Sounds like you need another turbo in your life  s;) s;)

Nah. Three would be greedy haha

Put it this way, each time I've gotten out of the turbo 2 and into mine, it's put a smile on my face.
What can I say...I'm addicted to 1zz  s:) s:)  ... or 2zz, unconfirmed.

Mine's just entirely different. I've put all the money into handling, and it has paid off.

Mine has your handling mods and helens turbo power.
#justsaying

[shnazzle]

Sounds like you need another turbo in your life  s;) s;)

Nah. Three would be greedy haha

Put it this way, each time I've gotten out of the turbo 2 and into mine, it's put a smile on my face.
What can I say...I'm addicted to 1zz  s:) s:)  ... or 2zz, unconfirmed.

Mine's just entirely different. I've put all the money into handling, and it has paid off.

Mine has your handling mods and helens turbo power.
#justsaying

Indeed. That's the ultimate  s:) s:)  
Don't see me having another 5k or so to turbo my car though haha. If only.

Helen's is on 17s, which I really don't think does wonders for the handling. Particularly for the front end turn in. I'd personally prefer 16s in front to sharpen that up. But.. It's got sp12s! Gotta take the bad with the good  s:) s:)

[Rubber Ducky]

Thanks for all the replies. The main thing putting me off the turbo option is the cost. I'm looking at £3,500 - £4,000 for a turbo kit which is double the value of the car or double the cost of a 2ZZ swap (I'm happy to do the spanner bending myself).

Or am I missing something? The only readily available UK turbo kit I can find is the Whifbitz one. I know they've got a good reputation on the Jap tuning scene but does anyone have any personal experience of this kit? Or are there other options out there?

[shnazzle]

Thanks for all the replies. The main thing putting me off the turbo option is the cost. I'm looking at £3,500 - £4,000 for a turbo kit which is double the value of the car or double the cost of a 2ZZ swap (I'm happy to do the spanner bending myself).

Or am I missing something? The only readily available UK turbo kit I can find is the Whifbitz one. I know they've got a good reputation on the Jap tuning scene but does anyone have any personal experience of this kit? Or are there other options out there?

Are you sure you've costed up the 2zz fully?
I think you'll be surprised how much the little things add up to.

donor engine/gearbox/ecu or car, lift bolts, aux belt, engine mount, manifold (or have 2zz manifold modified to clear crossmember), gaskets, oil, trans oil, cost for putting LSD from 1zz into 2zz 6 speed gearbox, assortment of required washers, wiring for lift.

It's not turbo money, but also, none of these costs are recoverable. Whereas a turbo is just plumbing for the most part. Returning to stock means getting a new sump and selling the rest.

[Rubber Ducky]

Thanks for all the replies. The main thing putting me off the turbo option is the cost. I'm looking at £3,500 - £4,000 for a turbo kit which is double the value of the car or double the cost of a 2ZZ swap (I'm happy to do the spanner bending myself).

Or am I missing something? The only readily available UK turbo kit I can find is the Whifbitz one. I know they've got a good reputation on the Jap tuning scene but does anyone have any personal experience of this kit? Or are there other options out there?

Are you sure you've costed up the 2zz fully?
I think you'll be surprised how much the little things add up to.

donor engine/gearbox/ecu or car, lift bolts, aux belt, engine mount, manifold (or have 2zz manifold modified to clear crossmember), gaskets, oil, trans oil, cost for putting LSD from 1zz into 2zz 6 speed gearbox, assortment of required washers, wiring for lift.

It's not turbo money, but also, none of these costs are recoverable. Whereas a turbo is just plumbing for the most part. Returning to stock means getting a new sump and selling the rest.

£2,000 seems a reasonable budget to me for a 2ZZ DIY conversion, although I totally agree with your point that it's a one-way journey that I'd be embarking on. It might add £6-700 to the car's resale value. Plus if I can get a few hundred quid for the 1ZZ engine then that puts the net cost of the conversation in the region of £1,000 - £1,200.

The Whifbitz turbo kit is about £3,200. I agree that's it's easily reversible, but what's a 2nd hand turbo kit worth? Let's say 50% of the original price. That puts the net cost of the conversation at about £1,600.

So, to cut a long story short, do you think my numbers add up? If so is the turbo worth the additional £500?

[Anonymous]

Set up a poll but for me it's turbo. Also the kit would sell second hand anywhere from £2 - 2.5k easy

[shnazzle]

Set up a poll but for me it's turbo. Also the kit would sell second hand anywhere from £2 - 2.5k easy

this. I've seen a few kits come up for sale the past 3 years or so and all have been > 2k

[1979scotte]

Set up a poll but for me it's turbo. Also the kit would sell second hand anywhere from £2 - 2.5k easy

this. I've seen a few kits come up for sale the past 3 years or so and all have been > 2k

2.4k i think i paid steve.

2zz could be for you.
Try before you buy.
Come to ding day there will be 2zz turbo and my personal fav V6

[s12vea]

About that price from memory including the uprated clutch.
Turbo kits don't often come up for sale these days and when they do they sell quickly.

I will be at ding day with mine this year

[Rubber Ducky]

Food for thought...

Are there any other options readily available apart from the Whifbitz kit? If so, at what price? I'm slightly concerned that the Whifbitz kit doesn't seem to come with a cat - would that upset the MOT man..?

Will probably need to budget for a new clutch too.