OK....the minefield of suspension and handling mods......

[HFB]

Hi guys/gals

Awaiting an influx of funds (come on bonus ball!) to enable me to do some more in-depth tinkering on my little MR2 to help me on a track, and in the meantime reading up on quite a few posts regarding handling and suspension and what can/should be done.

Now the most expensive mod to improve handling is obviously (AFAIK) a set of coilovers £700+

But what about all the other stuff that can be done?

I'm not overly sure on prices, but in order of priority (I will obviously not have mentioned everything), what mods will make the most noticeable difference to the handling (assuming they were the only mod that could be done at that time)?

Things I can think of are;

Tyres ........................£300+
Drop links - front ..........£30-40
Drop links - rear............£30-40
Polybushes..................£300 ish
Rear ARB....................£175 ish
Front ARB...................£175 ish
Front chassis brace........£120
Rear chassis brace.........£120
Matt Performance brace..£120 (fitted already - YAY!)

So what else could be done (and rough cost) as an interim to improve handling?

And in you opinion, in what order of priority/improvement would these upgrades have in your list of things to do?

NB I am already booking instructors when doing trackdays as I am fully aware this will be one of the biggest factors in getting the car to go round a track quicker!!

Thanks

HFB

[1979scotte]

Youve done matts brace so for me its tyres and coilovers that make the most difference.
Once stiffer coilovers are fitted then maybe time for more bracing?
Stiffer springs puts more force through the chasis?
I have mid front and soon rear braces on top of coilovers.
If yours is pfl then i think bracing becomes more important.
Not sure on ARB. If you have stiffer springs are they that important?
Im not sure myself.
Not convinced about uprated droplinks.
Polybushing would probably be a step too far for my car primarily road use.
Although i am changing the engine mounts to the stiffer kirks inserts as i am producing more the stock bhp.

[Jrichards20]

Order of priority in my opinion that you haven't fitted yet.

Tyres
Tyres
Tyres
Tyres
A decent Geo alignment
Coilovers/Suspension Refurb/Aftermarket springs and shocks.
Front Chassis Brace
Front Arb with droplinks (don't worry with uprated adjustable droplinks unless lowering)
Upgraded Traction Rods (Hardrace)
Rear Arbs with droplinks (don't worry with uprated adjustable droplinks unless lowering)
CG Lock will help you get round a track quicker as its holding you a lot better in the seat
Hard Top
Rear Chassis Brace * Not really needed in my opinion. some cars don't have rear chassis brace at all, and many have reported that an aftermarket rear chassis brace as done next to nothing.

Polybushing will be covered by coilovers, Arbs, traction rods. (I wouldn't bother with the rest unless the rubber bushes have gone)

Probably a few more that I have forgotten. If you want you can come up and have a drive of my coilovers to see what you think (Scott, we forgot to give you a test on Saturday!). I've got adjustable arbs and stiff tyres as well. So I'm currently going through the list of ticking suspension off much like you.

[Jrichards20]

Coilovers for sale here £450

Have no idea about the Tein SS but im sure someone will be able to say their strengths and weaknesses, off the top of my head I don't think the height was very adjustable? But may not be a major problem.

[1979scotte]

Will get a ride another time.
That car is going to be way more track than fast touring mate.

Weight reduction. If its just a track car rip out the soft top and put on a hardtop. Slight stiffening of the chasis some say and much lighter.

[beavisrules]

tyres x100, plus maybe better/lighter wheels.
front strut brace if not already fitted.

[Jrichards20]

Will get a ride another time.
That car is going to be way more track than fast touring mate.

I know  s:( s:(  I think I need some softer coilovers but these will have to do for the moment. As long as it doesn't bump across the roads because it's too stiff I should be ok. I think I'm more worried about road performance than comfort, although they are related in too hard will loose grip by bouncing on the road  s:( s:(

[HUTTY]

Sounds like you are going to track this car so
Lots and lots and lots and lots of track time then some more

[shnazzle]

Will get a ride another time.
That car is going to be way more track than fast touring mate.

I know  s:( s:(  I think I need some softer coilovers but these will have to do for the moment. As long as it doesn't bump across the roads because it's too stiff I should be ok. I think I'm more worried about road performance than comfort, although they are related in too hard will loose grip by bouncing on the road  s:( s:(

Play with the damping. Remember Nic (Wabbitkilla) ran 5/7 BCs for a good while. And although admitted it was a bit harsh for a daily (4/6kg is not), the handling was pretty damn sweet

[1979scotte]

Will get a ride another time.
That car is going to be way more track than fast touring mate.

I know  s:( s:(  I think I need some softer coilovers but these will have to do for the moment. As long as it doesn't bump across the roads because it's too stiff I should be ok. I think I'm more worried about road performance than comfort, although they are related in too hard will loose grip by bouncing on the road  s:( s:(

Play with the damping. Remember Nic (Wabbitkilla) ran 5/7 BCs for a good while. And although admitted it was a bit harsh for a daily (4/6kg is not), the handling was pretty damn sweet

Most people thought Nic was mad for running 5/7.
Me i will reserve judgement until i get a ride on BC but am more than happy with my 5/7 meister R.

[shnazzle]

I know  s:( s:(  I think I need some softer coilovers but these will have to do for the moment. As long as it doesn't bump across the roads because it's too stiff I should be ok. I think I'm more worried about road performance than comfort, although they are related in too hard will loose grip by bouncing on the road  s:( s:(

Play with the damping. Remember Nic (Wabbitkilla) ran 5/7 BCs for a good while. And although admitted it was a bit harsh for a daily (4/6kg is not), the handling was pretty damn sweet

Most people thought Nic was mad for running 5/7.
Me i will reserve judgement until i get a ride on BC but am more than happy with my 5/7 meister R.

Hopefully I can get a ride in Stew's soon, as I am quite curious. I'll put my damping the same as his the day before to get a good like for like. The only thing is that the AD08s do have pretty damn hard sidewalls, so mine will probably feel like 5/7 BCs anyway  s:) s:)  

I'm still quite interested in the new MeisterRs on paper. BC seems to have stuck with what worked a while ago, while MeisterR seems to be improving on their kit.
Not that I have any complaints...

[shnazzle]

Oh, there's a hidden message in there haha

Tyres! Tyres!
Bracing (especially pre-fl)
Then suspension

I wrote something a while back where I was trying to explain that it's not just up and up when you go down the list.

You could choose suspension, brace up, polymount,and then choose the wrong tyres and pressures to run it

So start with tyres, find your sweet spot. Add bracing, find sweetspot. Add suspension changes.... You get my drift.
You may need to adjust pressures/bracing once you've done suspension. Or you may want to remove an ARB depending on suspension setup. The list goes on

[HFB]

Thanks all

Some great answers/ideas.

You all sound way much more involved and in tune with your cars than me.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

I've done one stint at Brands (doing another on Monday   s:D s:D  ) and aside from dropping the psi by a couple of lbs, I've done nothing and the car feels fine.

Obviously I have nothing to compare to other than my friends 340bhp 350z that has had all manner of mods done to it and felt like a roller coaster on rails around the circuit (thank goodness for 4 point harnesses!!!), so it's very much a ruling of what you don't know you can't miss!

I have 3 TD's planned in the next 4 weeks, so will possibly be in need of some tyres soon (probably go the AD08's), but from my first TD, I never took the car even close to losing grip, so still at the stage of developing my experience and skills to improve the track times.

On a nice little plus note, my hoped for influx of cash might be happening sooner than anticipated, so I have a mind to spend £1.5-£2K in getting it more track focused. Not sure yet as it's a sweet little car, but I'd probably get more for my money if I sold my soft, road going one and bought a pre prepped track focused car for £3-4K!

HFB

[shnazzle]

Thanks all

Some great answers/ideas.

You all sound way much more involved and in tune with your cars than me.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

I've done one stint at Brands (doing another on Monday   s:D s:D  ) and aside from dropping the psi by a couple of lbs, I've done nothing and the car feels fine.

Obviously I have nothing to compare to other than my friends 340bhp 350z that has had all manner of mods done to it and felt like a roller coaster on rails around the circuit (thank goodness for 4 point harnesses!!!), so it's very much a ruling of what you don't know you can't miss!

I have 3 TD's planned in the next 4 weeks, so will possibly be in need of some tyres soon (probably go the AD08's), but from my first TD, I never took the car even close to losing grip, so still at the stage of developing my experience and skills to improve the track times.

On a nice little plus note, my hoped for influx of cash might be happening sooner than anticipated, so I have a mind to spend £1.5-£2K in getting it more track focused. Not sure yet as it's a sweet little car, but I'd probably get more for my money if I sold my soft, road going one and bought a pre prepped track focused car for £3-4K!

HFB

I think you'll be surprised what a massive difference a tyre switch and some bracing makes to the 2. Bracing especially is seriously night/day. If you don't feel 100% connected to the car now, chances are it's still in "mass market" mode  s:) s:)  Soft, a little less responsive and "safe".
I'd even go as far as to say that bracing and tyres made more difference than adding coilovers, putting ride firmness aside.
That's not taking away from the fact that out of factory the MR2 handles absolutely fantastically...as you know  s:) s:)

[Jrichards20]

I'm surprised you didn't even come close to loosing grip on your first track day! Must not have been pushing it hard enough!  s:) s:)  I think I spun it a few times  s:) s:)  its part of the fun.

All information above will keep you busy for a while  s:) s:)  Start playing with the tyre pressures on your track days, and you will notice a difference between a couple of psi.
Then when you add the brace (front and midship) you will see a huge difference. Then play with suspension hardness, ive been going through this recently and changing the rear arb stiffness. I've settled in a harsher front, a softer rear damping setting and a stiffer arb setting for the moment. Until I put in the front ARB and I will probably change a few things around again. As Patrick says, just change bits as your going along till you find what you like, then add a bit, and change it again  s:) s:)

[HFB]

I'm surprised you didn't even come close to loosing grip on your first track day! Must not have been pushing it hard enough!  s:) s:)  I think I spun it a few times  s:) s:)  its part of the fun.

All information above will keep you busy for a while  s:) s:)  Start playing with the tyre pressures on your track days, and you will notice a difference between a couple of psi.
Then when you add the brace (front and midship) you will see a huge difference. Then play with suspension hardness, ive been going through this recently and changing the rear arb stiffness. I've settled in a harsher front, a softer rear damping setting and a stiffer arb setting for the moment. Until I put in the front ARB and I will probably change a few things around again. As Patrick says, just change bits as your going along till you find what you like, then add a bit, and change it again  s:) s:)

Would suggest FURTHER midship bracing......I had already fitted the Mattperformance brace prior to my first TD in Oct?

Thanks all for the helpful suggestions and will look to sort out some new rubber shortly (hopefully it'll be dry Monday and get to push it and chew up the existing tyres a bit more).

I like the fact that the concensus is more about bracing to see improvements before coilovers.

Very helpful.

HFB

[Dougster7]

I'm surprised you didn't even come close to loosing grip on your first track day! Must not have been pushing it hard enough!  s:) s:)  I think I spun it a few times  s:) s:)  its part of the fun

+1 - live drive learn & mod  s:) s:)

[mrtecone1]

The car I am building has a full customs cage ,with double cross door bars rear diagonal and a harness bar from door pillar to pillar ,so is all the bracing that important ?  I have poly bushes coming for the front and rear also the 6 adjustable rear arms ,I also have a set of 3 way remote AVO coilovers coming.
Be interested in a few ideas.
My MR will handle a bit differently as I have removed the fuel tank and had an alloy one made that sits in the front,no servo,and AP calipers all round so weight is quite low, under 900 kilos done.That includes a fat K20 and its 6 speed box.

[Jrichards20]

One of the biggest improvements is the underbrace. Maybe try what it's like and sell if you find it only adds weight. 10 more posts and you'll have access to the sales section where I think Steve is selling one.

[mrtecone1]

My car has a box type cross brace right across the underside of the floor,when I purchased the car it had after market suspension,camber bolts,strut bar and this strange under floor brace.as a road car i was surprised how well it turned in,it did have a good set of Toyo tyres on it.

[Samuel]

Corky's Breastplate makes a real difference in handling. And of course tires (I have the Hankook V12 EVO2's) and correct tire pressure. I assume Matt's brace works even better as it is wider than the breastplate only.

[1979scotte]

Corky's Breastplate makes a real difference in handling. And of course tires (I have the Hankook V12 EVO2's) and correct tire pressure. I assume Matt's brace works even better as it is wider than the breastplate only.

A complete set of corkys is regarded as the best form of bracing.
I think matts brace compared to the breast plate must be better it is much larger sort of ties the 4 corners together.

[Bernie]

Corky's Breastplate makes a real difference in handling. And of course tires (I have the Hankook V12 EVO2's) and correct tire pressure. I assume Matt's brace works even better as it is wider than the breastplate only.

A complete set of corkys is regarded as the best form of bracing.
I think matts brace compared to the breast plate must be better it is much larger sort of ties the 4 corners together.

Matts is based on the TTE so proven design & performance

[Bernie]

Corky's Breastplate makes a real difference in handling. And of course tires (I have the Hankook V12 EVO2's) and correct tire pressure. I assume Matt's brace works even better as it is wider than the breastplate only.

A complete set of corkys is regarded as the best form of bracing.
I think matts brace compared to the breast plate must be better it is much larger sort of ties the 4 corners together.

Matts is based on the no longer available TTE so proven design & performance