Air intake comparison

[shnazzle]

My next project; intake comparisons.

I ran into a brick wall with the exhaust side simply because it's too expensive and time consuming  s:) s:)  

So the plan is to take my car and in one day in quick succession do some 3rd gear WOT runs with;

1) full stock intake
2) stock + k&n panel
3) stock + markiii pipe
4) stock + k&n + markiii
5) cone filter setup with stock MAF holder

I will do a few runs of each to get a decent average of the max MAF readings and I'll log it on the emanage to get clean readings.
Then pop the graphs in excel and share.

Should be fun. And should clear up whether anybody should bother with anything other than stock

Only extra parameter is that I'm running the emanage blue. But it won't change the comparison

This is the cone intake. Using stock MAF tube and a 45deg silicon hose with 0.5cm wall thickness to stop some heat.

[MR TWO]

Snazzle, what are your predictions?

[shnazzle]

Snazzle, what are your predictions?

I wouldn't dare make any.
But there will be differences.

What will be most interesting to me, in all honesty, is not the max reading but where the max reading sits vs rpm.

[mulaz]

Possibly include a MAF riser in the future?

[MR TWO]

Snazzle, what are your predictions?

I wouldn't dare make any.
But there will be differences.

What will be most interesting to me, in all honesty, is not the max reading but where the max reading sits vs rpm.

It will be interesting to find out whether the acclaimed "mods" do actually improve things and by how much.  An Mr2 roadster Myth busters!

[shnazzle]

Snazzle, what are your predictions?

I wouldn't dare make any.
But there will be differences.

What will be most interesting to me, in all honesty, is not the max reading but where the max reading sits vs rpm.

It will be interesting to find out whether the acclaimed "mods" do actually improve things and by how much.  An Mr2 roadster Myth busters!

Indeed! That's the poibt. And fun for me

Possibly include a MAF riser in the future?

That has nothing to do with the actual amount of air that flows  s:) s:)

[lamcote]

Excellent idea, look forward to seeing your results.

Isn't your engine mapped specifically for the markiii pipe (can't remember)? If so might that influence the outcome?

[shnazzle]

Well the logic I'm applying is that mine is tuned to suck more air in. So if anything, it'll make differences more visible.

In theory I should see a slower buildup to max MAF signal with full stock, and potentially a lower top figure.
And a faster climb to a higher top. MAF figure with the cone.
I'm hoping to exclude heat soak etc as much as possible by placing the cone behind the battery.

[PhilMC]

Just be careful with heatsoak if you're doing quite a few runs.
I'd suggest you do the same number of runs with each setup, and make sure you allow a good rest period between setups for more accurate data.

Having just had a 4hr long dyno mapping session a week or so ago on the 2zz I can confirm that the water temps and intake temps were very very consistent, and heatsoak wasn't massive with the setup I'm using.
(side scoops, markiii pipe, standard airbox and Pipercross panel filter)

[ChrisGB]

My next project; intake comparisons.

I ran into a brick wall with the exhaust side simply because it's too expensive and time consuming  s:) s:)  

So the plan is to take my car and in one day in quick succession do some 3rd gear WOT runs with;

1) full stock intake
2) stock + k&n panel
3) stock + markiii pipe
4) stock + k&n + markiii
5) cone filter setup with stock MAF holder

I will do a few runs of each to get a decent average of the max MAF readings and I'll log it on the emanage to get clean readings.
Then pop the graphs in excel and share.

Should be fun. And should clear up whether anybody should bother with anything other than stock

Only extra parameter is that I'm running the emanage blue. But it won't change the comparison

Configurations 1-4 will give valid comparisons, but configuration 5 has the potential to alter the MAF calibration due to the different air path. Oddly, if configuration 5 shows less airflow relative to the air going in, the engine may run a bit lean, which, with a stock ECU, could increase power.

[bluesmoke]

Interested to see the results of this as I've recently fitted a K&N panel when I serviced the car. Markiii pipe would be next mod once subframe etc. are done.

[shnazzle]

Updated first post with pic of the cone setup.

[Wabbitkilla]

When I had the Apexi intake and bored TB I used to nearly max out the MAF on WOT

[shnazzle]

Don't suppose you remember what the max MAF value was? Did you read it in voltage or "airflow"? To be honest I'm not even sure what the Torque Pro figure is

[shnazzle]

Did some tests today to start this off and I think I need to do them again  s:) s:)
I could not get my crappy OBD2 reader working today, so I have no intake temps, rpms, etc to match unfortunately. Which means only half the data  s:( s:(
So I'm afraid it's on hold until I can get a proper OBD2 dongle/cable. I'm sick of these cheap ebay ones as I'm on my 3rd one, so time to save for a nice one or proper setup.

I don't know how the below results translate to actual usable power of course, and especially as MAF voltages measure air MASS, not air flow. And this is very environment-dependent.
This is why I did the tests all within a small timescale.

Numbers
Max voltages seen (i.e. greatest mass):
- K&N panel + markiii pipe: 4.53v
- OEM panel + markiii pipe: 4.6v
- Cone filter: 3.92v

Well, ain't that just a kick in the goonies you'd think. Why the hell has the cone under-performed in comparison to the panels by over 0.6v? That's a properly massive difference.

My only logic goes back to mass. Less restriction (cone) = less pressure = less mass, but more flow.

Seat of pants review,
Remember, I'm on emanage blue piggyback ECU. So results will be different for stock. That wasn't the point of this test.

- K&N panel + markiii pipe: My usual setup. No flat spots, and no bumpiness toodling around town. Very nice drive
- OEM panel + markiii pipe: I did this second, the bumpiness returned pulling out of my estate. No noticeable difference in "pull" though. Just settled the cruising a bit. But, the bumpiness wasn't as bad as before I got my K&N panel. this might be due to changes in my fuel trims due to me adding the open loop trickery to the emanage. So, I think if I tweaked airflow a bit on the emanages low-rpm dials, I'd be ok and not notice anything now.
- cone: Aside from the obvious lovely noise, there was an absolute increase in the urgency of the throttle. When I mash my foot there's a sudden "bump", the engine bounces a bit with the sudden rush of air, settles quickly and then pulls noticeably harder through the rpm range.

Believe it or not I stuck to speed limits to do these tests, as I value my license and life. So, I also haven't tested it to the limiter. Managed to get to 6k-ish before having to drop off the throttle.


Conclusion
Not sure yet. Open to discussion based on the above. But I'm keeping the cone on for now as the power is much much more immediate.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

Did you do any kind of Reset on the ECu/Emanage between changes?

[Wabbitkilla]

there's cones and there're cones.
I used to get 4.98V with the bored throttle body and Apexi intake.

[shnazzle]

Did you do any kind of Reset on the ECu/Emanage between changes?

Only after the cone, as I had to remove the battery to install it. But, I'm not sure I had it disconnected long enough to clear the tables. Can't confirm as no OBD2...  s:( s:(

there's cones and there're cones.
I used to get 4.98V with the bored throttle body and Apexi intake.

I think this is it to be honest. I'll should have another strangely familiar red intake soon to see what a "good" intake does.

Nigel also said that the apexi had the highest flow of all.

So, so far there are 2 immediate interesting points:
- A panel filter (even an expensive one) does sweet f-all. We already knew this though. It might help flow and throttle response, but it will not touch how much air flows in max. There was marginally more noise.
- A cheap 12 quid cone filter does not an open intake make! As you said Nic; there's cones and there's cones. Thoroughly proven by this.

[jvanzyl]

- A panel filter (even an expensive one) does sweet f-all. We already knew this though. It might help flow and throttle response, but it will not touch how much air flows in max. There was marginally more noise.

FAKE NEWS!!!   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

You keep trying to smear my TRD filter.... I think you're jealous...

[shnazzle]

haha sorry mate. Themz figures don't lie  s;) s;)

What I really need is the RPM ranges to go with the MAF voltages. So I'll have to redo the lot. Which is great. I wish the emanage would log rpm. I have no idea why it doesn't.

[shnazzle]

the sound:
 m https://youtu.be/LMNelq33uXk m

[lamcote]

Would it be worth adding another option to test out. This being to simply remove the standard elbow in the stock intake and leave the mkiii pipe off as well so the air can simply enter directly into the air box?

[shnazzle]

I ran that setup for a while. It's an easy way to get a bit of induction roar. I noticed no change in anything.
I totally forgot to do the markiii pipe tests when the stock intake was still in. Now I've ripped it all out for the cone.

Can't do any tests while I have no obd2 anyway.

If I find time and when I get a new obd2 I will do it all over again. Also noticed that obd2 shows cfm. So that'd be good to have as a measurement as well to translate maf voltage to mass

[shnazzle]

Hmm...just ran the test with the Hurricane intake and maxbore throttle body (I know, this is no longer scientific  s:) s:) ) and I got a max value of 3.98v. A bit confused to be honest.
Different day though.

[jvanzyl]

higher ambient temps today possibly?