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M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby tomaky » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:01 am

You can make a harness ;) start with a old 1zz ecu/harness, cut the pin block off the circuit board, map your splice's and solder away. Ive got a excel spread sheet which took me 7 hours to do which mapped my harness out for the Link.
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby Paul@TCB » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:28 pm

1979scotte wrote:They're all mega money.
400 plus Vat!


with these harnesses we make only a tiny amount of money on them, it's mainly just a supplying service
to offer more ECU options to the MR2ROC community,
they're actually not too expensive when you break it down though the link plugs for the ECU alone are £120 + VAT
then you've got the Loom and ECU extension harness which is expensive,
then all the wiring and work involved to make the harness to aircraft specification and know you're receiving a fully tested
high end produced component, that peace of mind is worth the extra money over a home crimped / soldered connection in my book really :wink:

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby shnazzle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm

Comes down to economies of scale doesn't it?
I agree with Paul, this is something you want to have be pretty solid. But the only way that costs are going to go down is if all of a sudden the Link ecu market for 1zz shoots up.... Doubtful.. :)
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:38 pm

I am currently working through options for the ECU, looks like the Link G4 Storm ECU (without the extra MAP sensor I would need) plug and play vs the AEM EMS4 plug and play setup is around £400 more expensive.

I do currently have the PFC which should be ok for mapping on boost although not ideal as its not mapped by everyone and its not as clever coupled with no knock protection etc.

I do want to go with either the AEM EMS4 or the G4 - I guess I could look on the used market for either of them and then buy the plug and play harness on its own.

Need to sort out which features I will be using the most, I am leaning towards the G4 Storm as Link ECUs are well known and are more likely to have support.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby mikek » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:48 pm

Have you looked at the g4 link monsoon?
2zz by Rogue. Se7en cams. BMC CDA. Competion clutches lightened flywheel, Megillian Racing Exhaust. TRD sportivo suspension and ARB's. TRD braces. TRD quick shift. TRD dash kit, Matts brace. Getting there but not sure when it will stop!

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:51 pm

mikek wrote:Have you looked at the g4 link monsoon?


Looking more at the Storm rather than the Monsoon but might be a better value option and closer matched to the AEM EMS4 - will be looking to add other outputs such as meth injection as well so need to check the ECU isn't going to run out of inputs or outputs etc.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:58 am

Having a think about the timeline for this build I think I will look to do the following:

1. Build up engine over spring 2018
2. Run the current stock engine over the summer 2018 and do a few 1/4 mile runs to see what the performance is with the same engine but lower weight
3. Fit the engine in Summer/Autumn 2018 but run the engine NA (Might be looking at slightly closer to stock compression ratio on the forged pistons)
4. Run the built engine NA for most of 2019 probably using either the stock ECU or the PFC and start to collect parts for the turbo conversion, swap out injectors and fuel system etc
5. Bolt on turbo in 2020 running the Link G4+ Storm ECU

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:19 pm

Other things I want to sort on the car during 2018:

Coilovers from TCB - rear passenger shock is leaking slightly so want to change and refresh the current suspension
Link Xtreme ECU install and run MAFless (converting to MAP)
Refurb the wheels
Custom exhaust - smaller than the current TTE exhaust and to also fit lower to give additional clearance for the turbo pipework in the future
Remove seatbelt brackets from soft top frame etc
Mod the rear lights to include LED bulbs and perhaps black out some of the chrome parts
Race battery/move battery to the front
Front splitter
Tuft test to check airflow over stock hard top for aero work in the future

Will also be looking to do a few mods ready for the turbo install in 2020:

Uprated fuel pump
Return fuel system
1:1 RRFPR
VXR injectors - or indeed some IDX injectors

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby shnazzle » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:32 pm

Why convert to MAP? I know it's kind of the done thing but a MAF (a bigger one) is so much more flexible than MAP.
Never saw the point of trying to calculate airflow when you could just measure it very accurately, and adjusted for temperature, using a MAF? Instead of MAP where you need to get the VE table spot on and install a separate IAT. And any changes to VE will shoot off your map.

Even if you use the stock maf, the Link will let you scale it (and the associated spark/fuel maps)

I guess if the name of the game is to chase as much power as possible and the map will be tweaked accordingly for every little change, MAP
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:59 am

shnazzle wrote:Why convert to MAP? I know it's kind of the done thing but a MAF (a bigger one) is so much more flexible than MAP.
Never saw the point of trying to calculate airflow when you could just measure it very accurately, and adjusted for temperature, using a MAF? Instead of MAP where you need to get the VE table spot on and install a separate IAT. And any changes to VE will shoot off your map.

Even if you use the stock maf, the Link will let you scale it (and the associated spark/fuel maps)

I guess if the name of the game is to chase as much power as possible and the map will be tweaked accordingly for every little change, MAP


Will look to run a MAF initially and will do for a fair while I think, would only need to move to a MAP sensor when a Subaru MAF becomes a restriction - running a MAP sensor only would be an option only chosen if it became an issue.

I have a feeling I should be ok on the stock MAF for a couple of years, as you said its directly measuring airflow rather than working out the correct VE values etc.

2018 will be mainly focused on chassis mods and getting things sorted 100% for supporting mods before upping the power.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:29 pm

I have just re-read a message from TCB with regards to the forged pistons, it would seem that I am able to order the pistons in either 79mm or 79.5mm - all other aftermarket pistons seem to only come in 79.5mm, 82mm or 82.5mm meaning that I might be able to run with a 'drop in' forged piston at 79mm - as you would do on a standard rebuild for the oil burning issues.

Need to get the spare block checked over in terms of bore size, might have to take it to a machine shop although I am tempted to get myself a bore gauge to check it over myself, I can still see the hone marks on the cylinder walls so I think the engine is low mileage.

Looking at the Toyota workshop manual, for the stock bores to be reused they need to be 79.000 mm - 79.013mm (3.1102" - 3.1107") - Although not sure if this is correct as this would mean that the bore must have less than a fraction of a mm - unsure if this should be 79.000mm to 79.130mm as the next stage mentions that if the bore has less than 0.2mm of wear you can remove the carbon build up at the top of the cylinder.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby AllanE » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:53 pm

You can get ductile iron liners from Westwood Cylinder Liners (in sunny Droitwich).
I got mine off Ebay for about £150, IIRC, (but that was a few years ago) and had them fitted by Scholar Engines (sunny Stowmarket) for about £300.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:58 am

AllanE wrote:You can get ductile iron liners from Westwood Cylinder Liners (in sunny Droitwich).
I got mine off Ebay for about £150, IIRC, (but that was a few years ago) and had them fitted by Scholar Engines (sunny Stowmarket) for about £300.


Would rather go with Darton sleeves, have been quoted £120 per bore to fit the liners, have decided to simply bore the engine out to 79.5mm and run on stock sleeves - I can then use the project budget on something else, won't be running huge power as I won't be fitting an E153 box so just limited to the uprated JUBA gears in the stock box.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:20 am

I have now taken the head apart, it would seem that the head is in good condition, not a huge amount of build up on the valves (although not too worried about those as I am swapping out for an upgraded valvetrain).

I have also invested in a set of micrometers to then get the crank specs to see what bearings I need to order, I have a feeling they will all be standard size as I can't see any wear on the crank etc.

I did however noticed that there was a code on the bottom of the cylinder head which started with '4zz', I know that the 1zz, 3zz and 4zz engines have the same head - as far as I know this engine hasn't been opened however if it is indeed a 4zz head it has been rebuilt at some point. I am not too concerned if it has been rebuilt as it means that the valve guides and seals are going to be newer etc and they all look to be in very good condition.

Next step is to get the crank checked for size so I can then order the main and big end bearings - its the only thing that is currently holding up the build at the moment, after I have the sizes to put in the order I will then have the pistons to take to the machine shop to then be able to bore the block out to 79.5mm and start assembling up the engine.

Plan for parts is currently:

79.5mm pistons - custom from TCB
Forged rods - custom from TCB
Crower stage 2 forced induction camshaft
High flow black nitride coated valves
Upgraded valve springs and retainers
ARP head studs
ARP main studs
ARP flywheel bolts
Lightened flywheel
Fuel injectors - still to be decided
Clutch - still to be decided
New OEM oil pump
New sump (drilled for turbo drain but blanked)

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:14 pm

I have now fitted an induction kit behind the battery, it consists of:

45 degree 70mm silicone pipe
Cut up top of OEM airbox for the MAF tube and bellmouth
Generic induction kit filter

Its fitted behind the battery and the intake temps aren't bad due to being shielded by the battery as well as airflow from the passenger side vent.

Initial impressions are very good, car feels like it has more midrange torque vs the stock box and does feel smoother than the stock box - sounds really good as well.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby MilesH » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:12 pm

Following this with interest, great thread!

If you wouldn't mind me making a suggestion......pics as you go would be great :)

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:08 am

MilesH wrote:Following this with interest, great thread!

If you wouldn't mind me making a suggestion......pics as you go would be great :)


Will try and get something up for you, its very very basic, key thing is the MAF tube though so worth finding a spare airbox to then cut the tube out etc.

In engine building news, I need to recheck my crank, I think I had an issue with the adjustment of one my micrometers - I set it using the 50mm standard but have now adjusted it using the 25mm and 50mm standards and it seems to check out. Will be getting some plastigauge in various sizes anyway so no real harm in checking the current bearing clearances - will still look to fit performance bearings though.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:45 pm

I have just ordered a few parts from TCB which are very competitively priced, parts ordered so far are:

ARP Main studs (block is going to stay together)
ARP Head studs (head is going to stay on)
ARP flywheel bolts (flywheel will stay on)
Custom TCB Link G4+ plug and play wiring loom for my Link Xtreme - will be adding in a MAP sensor, high speed IAT sensor and a doughnut knock sensor at some point when I get onto boosting the engine
TCB replacement lower UJ - I think mine is a bit past it so wanted to refresh this before the summer for safety

Needed to get the main studs as I need to check the specs on the crank to see which bearings I need (or if I need to grind the crank), I have a set of plastigauge on its way so once I check the spec on the mains and crank pins again I can order up bearings and check the oil clearances.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby lamcote » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:09 pm

Nice.

Does the TCB wiring loom for the Link ECU keep the standard ECU wired in (kind of "piggyback" style) to run the dashboard, immobiliser etc?
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:12 pm

lamcote wrote:Nice.

Does the TCB wiring loom for the Link ECU keep the standard ECU wired in (kind of "piggyback" style) to run the dashboard, immobiliser etc?


As far as I know its a fully standalone ECU (although I have not seen the harness), with the same inputs and outputs as the stock harness, as far as I know the alarm and immobiliser are separate control modules, the mileage etc is held within the speedo.

I will report back when it arrives - I do have the Link Pin kit A and B so I could probably wire it in myself but felt that it would be more reliable to get the plug and play harness with all the connectors that have been tested etc.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby lamcote » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:25 pm

My understanding is that you need to keep the standard ECU wired in for certain functions such as the coolant gauge.

The Monkeywrench standalone ECU runs as a standalone ECU for all engine functions but retains the standard ECU wired in just for these functions because the standalone ECU doesn't include them.

It's all a bit complicated but the solution seems to be retaining the standard ECU but bypassing all the engine control elements which is presumably done by an appropriate design for the loom?
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:43 pm

lamcote wrote:My understanding is that you need to keep the standard ECU wired in for certain functions such as the coolant gauge.

The Monkeywrench standalone ECU runs as a standalone ECU for all engine functions but retains the standard ECU wired in just for these functions because the standalone ECU doesn't include them.

It's all a bit complicated but the solution seems to be retaining the standard ECU but bypassing all the engine control elements which is presumably done by an appropriate design for the loom?


I will find out when it arrives - its one of the reasons why I opted to buy a plug an play loom so that I didn't have the headache of trying to work out where everything plugged in!

Probably won't be installing the ECU for a while though, just enough to power it up and unlock it, set the various sensors up and turn the key.

Plan moving forward will be:

2018

Enjoy the car on the stock engine running the stock ECU or maybe the PFC with a tuned NA map installed (although checking parameters before I rely on the tuned map that is on there)
Fit steering UJ
Swap out exhaust for more compact custom exhaust
Fit coilovers and bushings
Build up the forged engine
MOT expires on 31/07/2018, car will be MOTed with the stock engine, after this point I will look to swap over engines if its ready

2019

Fit the forged engine into the car if its not already in
Run the car NA on the stock ECU/tuned PFC
Start collecting parts for the turbo upgrade

2020

Fit turbo parts
Fit Link ECU and get car mapped

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby 1979scotte » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:20 pm

Previous versions of the link still required stock ECU to run parts of the dash.
I don't think this has changed.
Getting a loom for an ECU you aren't planning on fitting for a couple of years is some serious forward planning.
I planned to do this to mine and then went V6.
Plans change.
Still interested to see what you do gearbox wise.
Good luck.
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby lamcote » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:25 pm

Presumably if the loom is designed correctly it would allow retention of the standard ECU and include appropriate connections to connect into both the Link and the standard ECU as required?

Is that the solution or is there more to it than this?
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:10 pm

1979scotte wrote:Previous versions of the link still required stock ECU to run parts of the dash.
I don't think this has changed.
Getting a loom for an ECU you aren't planning on fitting for a couple of years is some serious forward planning.
I planned to do this to mine and then went V6.
Plans change.
Still interested to see what you do gearbox wise.
Good luck.


This is probably the case, will find out when I get the PnP harness and shall report back, guessing that the PFC would emulate the stock ECU as a standalone (much like the PnP Link ECUs for other Toyotas).

I am forward planning quite a bit, it was a good price and has all of the features I needed so I just went with it. The reason I am not going to fit it right away (apart from unlocking it and checking out the software) is that with the engine running NA, remapping the ECU will boost the power from 140 to say 170 or so. Whereas remapping with the turbo setup will go from 140 to 400 - the dyno time will be the same so its more cost effective to run on what I have for the time being as I don't really want to be remapping more than I need to.

I will be running JUBA 3rd and 4th gears in the stock 6 speed box - I have found someone who is running a stock C60 box with a turbo setup running 300ft/lbs, apparently 4th fails every now and again but its on a stock box. I will look to limit the torque when I do remap to ensure that there aren't any sudden increases in torque through the rev range.

I must say I did also look at some of the Rotrex superchargers, it would seem that the C30-94 should support the airflow, will look into this option as well but am still favouring a turbo.

Block will be a sleeved 82mm setup, still working on piston options for the UK, might have to import but will work through the numbers - have found a machine shop that does 1zz supply and fit Darton sleeves, either dry sleeves or the Darton M.I.D. sleeves which would be the more desirable option. Also looking at block guards as well as pinning the sleeves but I think if I go Darton M.I.D. it should be fine.

Currently researching:

King vs ACL bearings
Tool steel wrist pins
Cometic head gasket thickness
Fuel pump options
Intake manifold mods needed

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:24 pm

I have had a slight change in plan with regards to the engine strengthening, instead of going for sleeves I am now going to look to run CSS (Cylinder support system) which is a custom CNC machine piece that is installed right at the top of the OEM sleeves. This then makes the engine a semi open design and allows for the sleeves to be held securely so that they don't move (and then crack) under higher loads, its quite common on Honda engines it would seem.

The CSS isn't the same as a block guard as a block guard is simply press fit into the engine and isn't specifically machined to the engine its being used on - more of a generic part.

This means I will be looking run the CSS, stock sleeves and a slight overbore to 79.5mm - I have been informed that the CSS is rated to around 500whp which should be plenty, its also worth noting that I have seen a few videos and builds where Honda engines have run 1000bhp on stock sleeves but CSS.

I was dead set on getting the engine sleeved but I also realise that even with the engine with dry liners, the engine is still an open deck design with no real support at the top of the cylinders where it needs the support the most.

I am still researching into it but it seems likely I am going to go with the CSS with 79.5mm forged pistons - considering I was originally planning on simply boring out to 79.5mm and keeping the rest stock I am happy that there is another options out there and great that there is a solution to give extra support to the top of the cylinders. I was even looking at pinning the sleeves by tapping the block to insert pins through to then support the walls of the sleeves.

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:09 pm

Quick update on the build so far:

Harness is currently being made - its a piggyback style so the stock ECU will look after some parts of the running of the car, Link Xtreme will look after the mapping, will be using a newer style MAP sensor, fast response temp sensor and will be upgrading to a Bosch doughnut knock sensor.

With regards to the block, this is going to be sent off to get the CSS machined in, will be running stock sleeves and 79.5mm bore, 10:1 compression ratio - I believe I will be the first person in the world to have a CSS 1zz and I believe this could be a better option than getting the block sleeved (unless going for an large overbore). Even with sleeves fitted the engine is still open deck so there is still no support at the top of the (now much thinner) sleeve. I will be getting a quote for how much it would cost for the block to be sleeved as a comparison but won't be sleeving the block.

I also have a T3 turbo manifold arriving soon so I can look to test fit this onto the engine to check clearances and turbo supporting etc - as mentioned I won't be bolting a turbo on right away but can start to collect parts etc.

With regards to engine bearings, there are currently no race bearings for the big end bearings but the main bearings for the 1zz and 2zz are the same, the plan will be:

Run King race bearings on the mains - MB5375XP (alternative is ACL race - 5M1857H/HX)
Run ACL or King standard bearings on the big end but run with a dry film coating to upgrade the standard bearing to a more race friendly bearing - King CR4263SI /ACL 4B1851

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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby 1979scotte » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:29 pm

10:1 compression ratio is going to give good off boost performance and aid turbo spool but will limit you up top.
MWR only recommend them for low boost applications.
As an example the 3s gte has 8.8:, the 2jz gte is 8.5:1 and even more recent engines like Subaru's ej25 have a compression ratio of 8.0:1 - 9.5:1 on their turbo applications.
Just my thoughts.
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby shnazzle » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:11 pm

At 10:1 with a turbo that big you're going to want to consider using the temperature safety features of the Link to reduce timing when it gets stupid hot.

Just one extra sensor (possibly two if doing IAT and EGT) and a bit of config. Small and price to pay for saving the block
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Re: M1tch's long term 1ZZ build

Postby m1tch » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:24 pm

I am still deciding between the 8.8:1 or 10:1 pistons - the engine shop has mentioned that they have quite a few high power cars running 500bhp running 10:1 pistons without issue when running on Vpower etc. Will be running upgraded IAT sensor as well as upgraded knock sensors etc and will definitely be running knock control on the Link.

Might look to run the 8.8:1 to be safe, still deciding on that though.


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