Clutch master cylinder internal leak test?

[JB21]

In brief, I'm no longer able to shift gears in my 2zz/c60 roadster with the engine ON. With the engine OFF I can find all gears no problem. Also, if i back the clutch adjustment pin all the way out (high pedal), I can just about find gears and there is 100% no slipping. So troubleshooting began, first off I bled the system, no difference. I then changed out the slave cylinder and re-bled, still no difference. Checked the clutch master for external leaks and cant see any so that's led me to start to remove the box, with the pressure plate or release bearing the main culprit given the symptoms?

Now before I remove the box I would like to check that the master cylinder hasn't got an internal leak. Is there anyway to test this whilst on the car?

I don't want to pull the box and it be the bloody master, I also don't want to pull the master off as its a PITA to bleed after running dry.

Found a tip online stating if when depressing the pedal to the floor, the fluid in the header rises this is a sign of an internal seal leak, as the fluid isn't transferred down the line, but back into the header, which does make sense, see below.



Does anyone else have any other on car tests I could perform?

[Carolyn]

The fact that if you make the pedal high the thing starts to work tends to indicate a pressure plate problem. It sounds like it's operating unevenly, a sign of a broken or weak finger.

As you're using the car as a track weapon, (and giving it a hammering??) I'd bet on the pressure plate.

You could get underneath and watch the fork movement while someone works the pedal.  If you shout 'push now' and there's a delay in movement- then it's a hydraulic issue.  If it moves promptly and steadily all the way - then a hydraulic issue is most unlikely.

Nine times out of ten, a bad cylinder will be leaking a little, so you'd expect to see some moisture about the attachment end of the cylinder.  If the cylinder is sucking air, you should see a bubble come up in the reservoir when it's pumped. 

Sometimes, you just have to take things apart and look, pain as it is!

[Zxrob]

As Carolyn says if the cylinder is leaking you would probably see it, however, not always, could you not test with a vacuum gauge

Rob

[JB21]

The fact that if you make the pedal high the thing starts to work tends to indicate a pressure plate problem. It sounds like it's operating unevenly, a sign of a broken or weak finger.

As you're using the car as a track weapon, (and giving it a hammering??) I'd bet on the pressure plate.

You could get underneath and watch the fork movement while someone works the pedal.  If you shout 'push now' and there's a delay in movement- then it's a hydraulic issue.  If it moves promptly and steadily all the way - then a hydraulic issue is most unlikely.

Nine times out of ten, a bad cylinder will be leaking a little, so you'd expect to see some moisture about the attachment end of the cylinder.  If the cylinder is sucking air, you should see a bubble come up in the reservoir when it's pumped. 

Sometimes, you just have to take things apart and look, pain as it is!

Thanks Carolyn, great advice as normal. I actually got my poor old mother to sit in the drivers seat over Christmas to push the pedal whilst I checked the slave push rod and it seemed fine. It was hilarious watching her attempting to get in and out of the caged MR2, I literally had to drag her out :-)

Does sound like a broken pressure plate with the symptoms, so I'll crack on with the box removal. Gives me something to do over the new lockdown.

Thanks again.

[JB21]

The issue...

Was fun bench pressing the gearbox out on my own.

[Carolyn]

Yep it's broke! (What's the lump hammer for?).

[shnazzle]

Yep it's broke! (What's the lump hammer for?).

Knocking out the drive shaft?

[JB21]

Lump hammer was just pulled out of my tool box to find someone else.

It was used previously on the passenger driveshaft.

[shnazzle]

Lump hammer was just pulled out of my tool box to find someone else.

It was used previously on the passenger driveshaft.

Who was hiding in your toolbox?

[Hammond]

ah this sucks! problem sorted?

[JB21]

ah this sucks! problem sorted?

Will order a LUK 2zz clutch kit tomorrow. Clutch kit had only done 5k miles too. Rougemotorsports handy work again, fitting a 1zz kit with the 2zz swap. The only difference between the 2 kits...the pressure plate, coincidence...

[Hammond]

ah this sucks! problem sorted?

Will order a LUK 2zz clutch kit tomorrow. Clutch kit had only done 5k miles too. Rougemotorsports handy work again, fitting a 1zz kit with the 2zz swap. The only difference between the 2 kits...the pressure plate, coincidence...

Oh man, what are they up to?

[shnazzle]

ah this sucks! problem sorted?

Will order a LUK 2zz clutch kit tomorrow. Clutch kit had only done 5k miles too. Rougemotorsports handy work again, fitting a 1zz kit with the 2zz swap. The only difference between the 2 kits...the pressure plate, coincidence...

Not at all. 

That's the key difference between the two, as well as the flywheel, to handle the higher rpms of the 2zz.
Or so the word on the street is.

[JB21]

ah this sucks! problem sorted?

Will order a LUK 2zz clutch kit tomorrow. Clutch kit had only done 5k miles too. Rougemotorsports handy work again, fitting a 1zz kit with the 2zz swap. The only difference between the 2 kits...the pressure plate, coincidence...

Not at all.

That's the key difference between the two, as well as the flywheel, to handle the higher rpms of the 2zz.
Or so the word on the street is.

Really poor from them TBH, surly they should of know not to fit a 1zz kit. 2 really costly cock ups now, first not spacing the dipstick causing bottom end failure, now this.

Both so easily avoidable is what makes it so frustrating.

Again, I'll repeat. The swap cost £5700!

[shnazzle]

ah this sucks! problem sorted?

Will order a LUK 2zz clutch kit tomorrow. Clutch kit had only done 5k miles too. Rougemotorsports handy work again, fitting a 1zz kit with the 2zz swap. The only difference between the 2 kits...the pressure plate, coincidence...

Not at all.

That's the key difference between the two, as well as the flywheel, to handle the higher rpms of the 2zz.
Or so the word on the street is.

Really poor from them TBH, surly they should of know not to fit a 1zz kit. 2 really costly shuttlecock ups now, first not spacing the dipstick causing bottom end failure, now this.

Both so easily avoidable is what makes it so frustrating.

Again, I'll repeat. The swap cost £5700!

Feel for you mate. 

I reckon, much like most outfits, there are different people doing jobs. Some more experienced than others.
No excuse. It's immensely frustrating

[Carolyn]

For that kind of money, I could be churning out supercharger jobs!!

[1979scotte]

There are no companies I have come across doing mr2 engine swaps of any description who are up to the task.
All have committed major errors.
I genuinely believe that if you can't do the job yourself you really shouldn't bother.

[shnazzle]

For that kind of money, I could be churning out supercharger jobs!!

Is that an official Club offer?

[1979scotte]

For that kind of money, I could be churning out supercharger jobs!!

Is that an official Club offer?

It's lockdown she is bored.

[Carolyn]

For that kind of money, I could be churning out supercharger jobs!!

Is that an official Club offer?

No.