oil leak near but not timing chain tensioner.

[mdw]

I knew the car had an oil leak and due to the amount of oil in that area thought it was the tensioner oil seal so replaced it.    Ran it up  and after checking when warm oil is dripping out of the area just to the left of the tensioner.   Before I start taking it apart  any suggestions.

[Carolyn]

If you used the OEM O ring - it'll be that that's leaking.

I can send you one that won't leak......

[jonbill]

If it really is coming from between the timing cover and head, then I expect its an engine out job.
Although you could try cleaning it up and pressing some sealant in or try one of those stop leak additives.
I wouldn't be confident though.

[Carolyn]

90% probability - it's the O ring.  The Toyota O rings are rubbish.

[mdw]

Sorry should have said, I had just put a new viton  o ring in place , cleaned it all up , ran tthe engine up for 4-5 mins and this was still  leaking as before, and looking up close Im certain it not from the tensioner.

[mdw]

If it really is coming from between the timing cover and head, then I expect its an engine out job.
Although you could try cleaning it up and pressing some sealant in or try one of those stop leak additives.
I wouldn't be confident though.

The paperwork that came with it shows some sort of magic additive to make seals swell!!!! added in the past.

[Carolyn]

Sorry should have said, I had just put a new viton  o ring in place , cleaned it all up , ran the engine up for 4-5 mins and this was still  leaking as before, and looking up close Im certain it not from the tensioner.

In that case, as head gasket leaks are really rare, I'd suggest it is coming from the junction between the head, block and timing cover.  There is a tiny channel created at that spot which requires an extra bead of sealant.

To get at it, you need to remove the timing cover.  It's a pain as the bottom pulley has to come off, along with the cast engine mount bracket, and the water pump.  Also the top bolt holding the alternator must be removed and the alternator swung out of the way.

I've removed the timing cover with the engine in a couple (perhaps three) times.  Tales a lot of patience.

[mdw]

20k miles ago , october 14 there is a receipt for head gasket removal "water ingress within cly 4".   The head had a check over and skim followed by a  £1900 bill.  I prefer the idea of leaving the engine in place if it can be done  even with patience.  It does look like that head, block and timing cover area.   My previous  rebuild was a 1988 esprit   and so far this mr2  hasn't  cause me too many sleepless nights.   

[Ardent]

 

[Call the midlife!]

Nineteen how many?? Could buy 4 replacement engines for that..[emoji23]
Wonder if they've missed out the two dabs of sealant on the initial rebuild, if you've never had the head cover off since?


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[mdw]

Probably should have started with the pulley but everything else is off now so a few more questions, sorry.

1. Is there a way to lock the crank to undo the pully nut and is it a normal anticlockwise to undo  thread?   Also please tell me it pulls of easily as there is not a lot of space in there.
2. Whats the recomended sealant to use on the cover hopefuly with a reasonable tighten up all the bolts time?

Any thing else I should replace whilst i'm in there?   Water pump looks like it was done 20k ago with the head so just a  new seal for that.

Regards
Malcolm

[jonbill]

If you put it in gear, with the (working!) handbrake on, the crankshaft is effectively locked. But beware if you're working under the car with the front on axle stands turning the nut will try to turn the rear wheels so look out for the car moving.

I don't remember having trouble getting the pulleys off, but only done it with the engine out. You may need a couple of big screw drivers to wiggle it off.

Elring Dirko is good sealant for the timing cover.

[Carolyn]

If you pop the plastic cover off the bottom of the bell housing, you can 'lock' the crank with a big screwdriver.  I also seem to remember putting it in gear and very firmly applying the hand brake, as Jonbill suggests.

Yes it's a normal thread on the bolt.

Dirko Elhring Grey (if you're doing an Ebay search).

[mdw]

Cover off  now on clean up stage.   Rather a lot of sealant under the coolant pump area and in other places almost  nothing the join was so tight.   Traces of the old sealant not fully removed  when the head done but not much.

[Carolyn]

Well done.  A tedious little sod, isn't it?

You might want to put a new water pump in while you've got it in bits.  Pattern ones are fine and don't cost much, plus it gets a new O ring....

[mdw]

As you have done them this way before Carolyn would you recomend I put the sealant on cover or block before refitting?
 
Looking at the leak area  between the red lines in pic  I wonder if this was a combination of not fully cleaned/degreased block at the head join and sealing around the oil  feed  hole for the tensioner.

 Is that grove to the right of the feed hole a channel for extra sealant?

Cheers for the advice guys, ive paypaled £20 to clulb funds as a thankyou.

[Carolyn]

Firstly, THANK YOU so much for the extremely generous donation.  Members like you, we really need!!

I took a pic of a cover I have in the workshop.  I've wondered about that groove too.  I think it's a drain for over-pressure in the oil feed to to tensioner, it makes sense when you look at the bottom part of it.
In that case, you want to try to keep it clear.

I'd put a bead of sealant down the outside and a small one around the inside edge.

I'm a bit concered, from your pic, as to the condition of the sealing surface just below that feature.  Could you do a thorough clean and post a pic?

IF it's damaged, I can send you a replacement cover. (Got 3!).You cannot view this attachment.

[mdw]

Cleaned up pic enclosed.  To my untrained eye looks ok?    However wish it was more obvious why it was leaking in the first place as it seemed to have the 2 dabs of sealant on the block, head join. In most of the cover join almost all the sealant had been compressed out of the gap apart from the coolant pump area, especiallly underneath.

[Carolyn]

That looks just fine.  I don't think your eye is quite so 'untrained'.

Perhaps a poor job of cleaning up and sealing carefully last time?  Who knows?

All you can do is clean well, do it carefully and keep your fingers crossed.

Have all your bolts with clean threads and organised, so the cover bolts on quickly, before the sealant starts to go off....  you have to press on quite quickly when re-assembling.

Don't put too much goop on, but be thorough - especially round the water pump surface - it can leak straight into the engine!!

Good luck with it all.

[mdw]

To round this up.  It was a very intense 15 minutes getting the cover into place without smearing the sealant everywhere ( used the elring dirko as advised).  Then putting the 20+ bolts in place all torqued  up to different amounts.  But a week and 100 miles  later so far so good.  No leaks spotted.  Can now put some more miles on it  and see if anything else needs sorting.  Many thanks especially to Carolyn.

[Carolyn]

To round this up.  It was a very intense 15 minutes getting the cover into place without smearing the sealant everywhere ( used the elring dirko as advised).  Then putting the 20+ bolts in place all torqued  up to different amounts.  But a week and 100 miles  later so far so good.  No leaks spotted.  Can now put some more miles on it  and see if anything else needs sorting.  Many thanks especially to Carolyn.

Excellent job.  Very well done, sir!  Not an easy job at all.  It's great when we get a result.

[StuC]

Agreed, excellent effort and job well jobbed.
Long may it last.

@Carolyn excellent diagnosis and support.