Steering question

[Flibby]

I supposed after my intro and buying threads this was the inevitable next port of call!

So, after picking up the 2 yesterday and having a drive around, I've noticed that the steering is noticeably 'heavier' than I've got used to on other PAS cars. This may well be simply 'how it is' therefore I'm sure i'll get short thrift if this is simply a model specific point.

The steering at speed is fine, but at low speeds, parking etc, it's noticeably more difficult to turn at higher degrees of lock. Tyre pressure was down on the fronts (16 PSI on the right front) but now sorted however this hasn't entirely solved the 'issue' (if it is one) as i'd thought when i took the pressures.

There's no PAS light on, although it shows up on the dash when starting so i know the bulbs still in there  and it went through an MOT no issues last week. I've had a look over the list of items checked in an MOT relating to steering, and significant issues should surely have been noted, at the very least as an advisory if the PAS wasn't operating correctly. I've checked the difference when engine on v engine off and there's obviously some assistance there as it's possible to turn when the engine is operating v when off. Just stiff.

Has anyone got any words of wisdom, or note that the steering is just heavier than in other vehicles?

Many thanks,

Nick

[Call the midlife!]

One or both of two things. The bottom UJs are prone to get rusty and tired or depending on the age of the car it's probably worth changing the PS fluid.


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[Chilli Girl]

Sorry to hear this Nick, I think if I remember correctly you brought it from the dealer and as you know them, you could always get them to take a look at the car but yes as John says, UJ's are prone to corrosion as they get a hard deal particularly where they are positioned under the frunk.

Enjoy your car, summer is almost here.

[Flibby]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I'm getting the car up on stands for a proper service of everything on Good Friday so it's good to get an idea of what to look out for.

John i assume that this video is similar to what you're suggesting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhKIuoviLeE

I did buy it from a dealer Chili, so that's always the port of call if something's going to be expensive. If it's just a case of a few quid on a reconditioned part that i know that I can sort however i'd rather do it myself for peace of mind and lack of hassle.

Are there any checks that you could suggest that would help to isolate the problem? Any UJ corrosion will be obvious enough i guess once the frunk is off.

I'm not needing the car as a daily driver until the end of June so i've got time to get things sorted, i just hope that i don't end up having bought a complete lemon..

[Chilli Girl]

Yep Nick, that's it.  Good video that. Cheap to replace too if required. Foxy has original and still ok which has similar mileage to yours. .

[Call the midlife!]

If it's just stiff then a good wire brush and proper soaking in lubricant of your choice might fettle it but if there's a lot of play and serious loss of thickness to the metal then you're best to replace it before it splits in use.
TCB supply a decent pattern part for less than £80, although prices could've changed since last I saw.
If you change the fluid be sure to get EPS fluid, the high street shops will try and tell you auto gearbox fluid etc is fine but it's not suitable for these cars.
And yes, the bit in the video, they're not difficult jobs but getting to the upper joint can be "challenging". If you're changing the UJ then check the condition of bulkhead gaitor before you order any parts as you need the steering shaft out to change that anyway.


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[Flibby]

Thanks all. I'll open her up on Friday and see if it's the joint!

[Chilli Girl]

Keep us posted Nick.   

[JoeCool]

Your lower UJ will probably look ugly, but if the steering feel is consistent it's probably just rusty but still functional. When they're properly gone you'll have slack around the dead ahead, uneven steering feel and feedback throughout the range of steering, and the car will be trying to kill you on lane changes and round bends. It really is a deeply unpleasant feeling and a horrible failing on these cars!!

I'd say if the steering feels ok but just a bit heavy, there's probably not much wrong.

are you on standard wheels and front tyre sizes? That can play havoc with steering feel.

[Flibby]

Your lower UJ will probably look ugly, but if the steering feel is consistent it's probably just rusty but still functional. When they're properly gone you'll have slack around the dead ahead, uneven steering feel and feedback throughout the range of steering, and the car will be trying to kill you on lane changes and round bends. It really is a deeply unpleasant feeling and a horrible failing on these cars!!

I'd say if the steering feels ok but just a bit heavy, there's probably not much wrong.

are you on standard wheels and front tyre sizes? That can play havoc with steering feel.

It's got 15s front 16s rear so standard I believe.

The steering doesnt necessarily centre itself as it should at slow speeds, parking etc. Could that tie in with the UJ being off? At motorway speeds not noticable because the force through the wheels would correct it?

[Ardent]

Go with all of the above suggestions first.

You have stated pressures now correct. So 26 front 32 rear.
What tyres does it have on? make, size, age?

My 2p. Possibly get the geo checked.

As you have alluded to, it may be you just needing to re-calibrate to how a 2 feels.
Does it go where you point it or do you feel it wants to kill you?

[Flibby]

Go with all of the above suggestions first.

You have stated pressures now correct. So 26 front 32 rear.
What tyres does it have on? make, size, age?

My 2p. Possibly get the geo checked.

As you have alluded to, it may be you just needing to re-calibrate to how a 2 feels.
Does it go where you point it or do you feel it wants to kill you?

It doesn't feel as though it wants to kill me, just stiff  once you're putting more lock on.

Fronts are Toyo T1R 195/50 15s
Rear: Toyo T1R 225/40/ 16s

Both good as new to be honest.

[shnazzle]

....
The steering doesnt necessarily centre itself as it should at slow speeds, parking etc...

My 2p. Possibly get the geo checked.

......
Does it go where you point it or do you feel it wants to kill you?

Does sound a bit like toe being off. Other than that, I can say that the power steering is indeed a decent bit heavier on my mr2 than it is on our family Skoda Superb. So there's that element

[1979scotte]

Go with all of the above suggestions first.

You have stated pressures now correct. So 26 front 32 rear.
What tyres does it have on? make, size, age?

My 2p. Possibly get the geo checked.

As you have alluded to, it may be you just needing to re-calibrate to how a 2 feels.
Does it go where you point it or do you feel it wants to kill you?

It doesn't feel as though it wants to kill me, just stiff  once you're putting more lock on.

Fronts are Toyo T1R 195/50 15s
Rear: Toyo T1R 225/40/ 16s

Both good as new to be honest.

Wider than necessary on a stock roadster.
I remember 205 front feeling very heavy.
Once they're worn out I would look to return to stock sizes.

[Flibby]

Go with all of the above suggestions first.

You have stated pressures now correct. So 26 front 32 rear.
What tyres does it have on? make, size, age?

My 2p. Possibly get the geo checked.

As you have alluded to, it may be you just needing to re-calibrate to how a 2 feels.
Does it go where you point it or do you feel it wants to kill you?

It doesn't feel as though it wants to kill me, just stiff  once you're putting more lock on.

Fronts are Toyo T1R 195/50 15s
Rear: Toyo T1R 225/40/ 16s

Both good as new to be honest.

Wider than necessary on a stock roadster.
I remember 205 front feeling very heavy.
Once they're worn out I would look to return to stock sizes.

Thanks for that - standard being 185 front 205 on the back?

Are the tyres enough out to be causing any issues with the wheel travel, or is that not much of an issue?

[1979scotte]

Go with all of the above suggestions first.

You have stated pressures now correct. So 26 front 32 rear.
What tyres does it have on? make, size, age?

My 2p. Possibly get the geo checked.

As you have alluded to, it may be you just needing to re-calibrate to how a 2 feels.
Does it go where you point it or do you feel it wants to kill you?

It doesn't feel as though it wants to kill me, just stiff  once you're putting more lock on.

Fronts are Toyo T1R 195/50 15s
Rear: Toyo T1R 225/40/ 16s

Both good as new to be honest.

Wider than necessary on a stock roadster.
I remember 205 front feeling very heavy.
Once they're worn out I would look to return to stock sizes.

Thanks for that - standard being 185 front 205 on the back?

Are the tyres enough out to be causing any issues with the wheel travel, or is that not much of an issue?

Very much doubt they're causing any issues but the car just feels RIGHT on the OEM spec sizes especially with some real performance rubber rather than themore competitively priced offerings like the T1R or ZE914.

[Ardent]

@Flibby

Where are based?
Might be able compare with another owner.

[Flibby]

@Flibby

Where are based?
Might be able compare with another owner.

I'm near Bury, north of Manchester. Hopefully I'll get a better idea on Friday if some wd 40 'ing provides some improvements I'll know I'm in the right area with it. If not it's really reassuring to know theres a lit of friendly knowledge here  :notworthy:

[jonbill]

If you've still got concerns in a couple of weeks, you can compare to mine when it's back on the road. I'm in Clifton/Salford in the week.

[Call the midlife!]

As an aside to this, a lot of people (myself included) tend to run the Toyos a bit firmer than standard due to the soft sidewalls. Not saying it has anything to do with the steering feel but you'll feel less initial "give" into a hard corner, if you like to push them a bit.
I'm 28/36 but that's on standard PFL sizes and stiffer suspension so you're best experimenting as you go.


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[Flibby]

If you've still got concerns in a couple of weeks, you can compare to mine when it's back on the road. I'm in Clifton/Salford in the week.

Thanks Jon, will do!

[james_ly]

What car are you comparing it to? Steering is heavier than a modern shopping car, but should still be light enough to easily turn one handed.

[Petrus]

I can say that the power steering is indeed a decent bit heavier on my mr2 than it is on our family Skoda Superb.

Then you will think my non power assited one on 195s to be the equivalent of an anti theft device 

[Flibby]

Just to follow up on this one, i had the car up today changing oil, filters etc, and upon removing the frunk my U-Joint was in a similar mess to that expected after all of your advice. It seems to be one of the most accessible points of the car!

WD40 made a slight improvement, however I'll be ordering the new part on Tuesday - thanks again everyone.

My general observations after changing the oil and having a look around...

1. The under-tray screws/bolts are a fiddly pain.
2. Everything is generally designed to make it as difficult as possible to work on without a 4 post lift! (although having the oil filter fit vertically does stop the usual spillage of half of it all over yourself.

First time i'd been able to check out the underside beneath the trays. My rear sub-frame has surface rust but generally seems structurally sound. Any advice to the contrary greatly received - pics below.

There's the usual rust in most other places, although i was told that rust takes up 10x the area of the sound metal that went before it!

There seems to be some treatment of the wheel arches, anti corrosion, everywhere - guessing this isn't standard?









Thanks again for the advice 

[Call the midlife!]

To be honest looking at the subframe you need to have a good poke around where the cat passes under it. Mine had less rust in the places in your pics and a hole through it above the cat so worth having a poke about.


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