Septembers mod - Suspension

Optimus prime · August 25, 2018, 20:54

Hi Guys,

My MOT is due at the end of September and on the advisories are all suspension springs are showing signs of corrosion.

When I take corners at speed I feel a strange shift in weight back out of the corner, it's easily corrected but it doesn't give me the planted feeling which MR2's are supposed to be renowned for.

This brings me on to my next mod, i'm looking at lowering the car and quite fancy the Tien springs. I can fit these myself but I wanted to ask you guys if there's anything else i NEED or is highly recommended?

1979scotte · August 25, 2018, 20:59

Others will disagree but if you've done over 50k miles then I would be looking at new shocks and springs at the very least.
Would imagine all sorts of bushes would benefit from a change too.
What sort of condition is the rear subframe in?
Sometimes the cam bolts are rusted in place and an alignment becomes impossible.
Then there are top mounts and suspension arms to consider.

Optimus prime · August 25, 2018, 21:03

I would like to spread the cost of this over a couple of months so just really looking at the essentials for now. I will put more cash into it later as I totally agree with the shocks, that is on my list but that's going to be another £200 or so.

Rear subframe is OK, but it can imagine it's going to be challenging... they always are!

BTW im sitting on 77k

Ardent · August 26, 2018, 00:27

As scott said.
Shocks.
The mitigating circumstances are you are doing the spanner work. So only your time as a cost. As you will be doing the same work twice.

lamcote · August 26, 2018, 08:29

Rear antiroll bar drop links often have to be cut off to remove the rear struts so a new pair might be required.

jonbill · August 26, 2018, 09:33

Sounds to me more like a worn bush or a bolt not done up properly. You may fix it while you're changing springs and shocks, but you might not....

Optimus prime · August 28, 2018, 10:44

Ok, you guys have given me some ideas. I might save for the springs and dampers in one hit. I guess it's worth replacing the front top mounts but should I bother doing the rear top mounts?

lamcote · August 28, 2018, 16:09

They seem to last very well, I doubt you'd need to.

Beachbum957 · August 29, 2018, 12:25

Quote from: Optimus prime on August 28, 2018, 10:44
Ok, you guys have given me some ideas. I might save for the springs and dampers in one hit. I guess it's worth replacing the front top mounts but should I bother doing the rear top mounts?

I have run Tein-S springs with aftermarket KYB struts and they worked well for over 20,000 miles. The KYB were replaced by Koni inserts which work a lot better but are much more expensive. If you are trying to save a bit of money, the KYB are a good choice.

I would suggest replacing the front top mounts as the bearings go bad, but if the rubber looks OK in the rear, they should be reusable. There are a lot of aftermarket top mounts, many with sealed bearings. The front boots are often torn, and I used OEM that come with bump stops. Be sure to cut the front bump stops as suggested by Tein. The OEM rear boots are attached to the top mount and unless that are completely gone, should be OK. The rear bump stops don't seem to need being cut, and although I replaced them when the struts were changed, the old ones were probably just fine.

As suggested, the rear bar drop links can be difficult to remove, and may need to be replaced, but you won't know that until you start taking everything apart. It is somewhat easier to get an allen wrench on the back of the joint with the strut partially out, but if the nut is badly corroded, cutting it off may be the only choice

While the alignment shouldn't change much as the amount of adjustment is pretty small, it is a good idea to get it done after major suspension work.

Optimus prime · August 30, 2018, 10:40

Thank you so much for your reply Beachbum957. That is where my research was taking me. It's great getting feedback from someone who's done what i'm planning on doing!

I'm pretty set on the Tien Springs as they have be tried, tested and loved by so many people.

For shocks I was looking at KYB but also noticed Euro Car Part do Sachs. I will wait until there's a crazy promo on and see if I could get them any cheaper.

For top mounts I found Compbrake supply aftermarket units: http://www.compbrake.com/product-category/cars/toyota/mr2/ . Are there any others worth looking into? initially I was just looking at OEM units...

I have found a few places nearby that do wheel alignment for circa £60... not sure if I should find a more 'able' garage for better results... I don't really know what i'm looking for in a garage.

Beachbum957 · August 30, 2018, 11:40

I don't much about Sachs, but the KYB is essentially the same as OEM as KYB made the original struts. As for top mounts, KYB makes good replacements.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-SM5215-KYB-Repair-Kit-suspension-strut-OEM/192534047943?epid=1423961075&hash=item2cd3ec6cc7:g:RvEAAOSw~mpa8SfS

These are often listed for a Corolla or Celica, but the KYB US catalog shows they should be the same for the MR2. KYB also makes replacement boots.

https://www.kyb.com/catalog/

Optimus prime · August 31, 2018, 09:44

Thanks for the info. I found some real bargains on eBay using the KYB catalogue: http://kyb-europe.com/catalogue/

I now need the front boots and top mounts. It looks like www.buycarparts.co.uk is a good place to get these from... the KYB catalogue only shows a repair kit for the rear struts.

Thanks for your help so far guys, you've been amazing as always!

Beachbum957 · August 31, 2018, 14:08

A very popular parts source in the US is RockAuto, and they do ship internationally

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/

The shipping may be too high compared to a local source, but it might be worth comparison shopping, or as source for alternative part numbers.

Optimus prime · September 8, 2018, 07:43

Hi guys,

I fitted new KYB shocks and Tien Springs yesterday. In addition to them I also had to get:
-Front top mounts.
-Front dust covers (previous ones had fallen apart).
-Rear Anti-roll bar links (previous ones were rusted in place).

The rear drop links took the longest to sort out and was by far the worst part of the install. I ended up sawing off the knuckle and drilling out the bolt after finally admitting defeat when the seal popped.

The rear suspension setup is very basic and easy to piece togather. The front is more technical and requires a bit more thought.

All in all it was a good 6/7 hours on the driveway. I probably spent 2 hours sorting out the drop links!

Optimus prime · September 8, 2018, 07:50

Next thing I need to sort out is wheel alignment. What do I need to look out for when asking garages if they can do it? They range from £50 - £120 but I guess there's a reason for the price difference!?

Beachbum957 · September 9, 2018, 00:15

Quote from: Optimus prime on September 8, 2018, 07:50
Next thing I need to sort out is wheel alignment. What do I need to look out for when asking garages if they can do it? They range from £50 - £120 but I guess there's a reason for the price difference!?

I had the same setup for 20,000 miles. Ask the shop if they will align to specific settings, of if they just get the alignment within "factory specs". The problem is the stock range for camber and toe is pretty large, so if they just get it "in spec", it could be a bit "off". For example, you could end up with one front at 0 camber and the other side at -.75 and still be within factory tolerances and "in-spec". Or one wheel may toe out slightly and the other side toe in and still be "in-spec" which will make the car "crab" a bit and not track quite straight.

Find a shop that will at least try to hit specific toe and camber numbers. That typically costs more as it is more work and can be tedious to get really close tolerances.

Near the minimum toe spec seems to work the best both front and rear. With the car lowered, the camber will be more negative naturally, but if you used the stock bolts you should still be within spec near the max allowed negative camber.

I have run the front camber from -1.1 to -1.5 and the rear from -1.3 to -1.6 using stock strut bolts. This is for normal driving, not track days. Depending on the tire setup, you may find a bit of snap oversteer with the Tein. If you get that, a simple solution is try is to remove the rear sway bar. Since you have new links, just pull off one side for a test. If you don't like it, just put the new link back on.

I have been running without the rear bar for years

Optimus prime · September 10, 2018, 13:43

thank you, that's great info!

basically i'm only looking at toe and camber then!? do you know if there's a resource on what alignments people have tried?

thank you for your help on this

Beachbum957 · September 13, 2018, 11:41

Quote from: Optimus prime on September 10, 2018, 13:43
thank you, that's great info!

basically i'm only looking at toe and camber then!? do you know if there's a resource on what alignments people have tried?

thank you for your help on this

I think what you want is alignment specs that work, not what have been tried.

I have seen people suggest some unusual setups, most of which don't work. If you stay within the factory specs, you will be fine for the road. Personally, I have run as little as zero toe front and rear, but settled on a small amount of toe in on both (.15 deg on each wheel - 1.5 mm total). More negative camber in the front will help initial turn in, but go too far and the car can get "darty". The max front within spec is -1.5, which does work well. I have run near the max negative camber in the rear at -1.8, but you may find the rear tires may wear out sooner on the inside edges with more than -1.5 negative.

You can really only adjust camber and toe. Is caster is out, it is likely something is worn or bent