Induction kit and IATs

[m1tch]

Hi all,

Just in the process of working out an induction routing, currently have the stock airbox with upgraded cold air feed and a high flow filter but I am looking at other options, I bolted on a basic cone filter to the end of an OEM MAF tube and took it for a drive. I felt that the throttle response was indeed better but noticed once I got back it was showing a 60C intake temp when sitting on the drive - the filter was next to the exhaust so not good!

I am trying to fit a filter behind the battery however it seems I need a 45 degree 70mm connector (only have a 70mm straight) as the throttle body sticks upwards rather than being flat.

Just wondering what filter setups and IAT others are getting, I think I have read that the stock airbox with high flow filter works the best - might look to enlarge the ducting more to the stock box to see if that makes a difference.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

I think shnazzle did some side by side testing. There's a thread on here somewhere

[shnazzle]

Hit the nail on the head.
The 190bhp celica had a very similar setup with the same stock panel. So the flow is absolutely fine in the stock air box.
For the TTE turbo, the only change is a sports panel in the stock box.

So, if it's purely about flow and intake temps for the least money... A sports panel.

Otherwise, behind the battery. In direct line of the side vent.

My IATs rarely go above 30 standing still with a hot engine. When driving, a few degrees over ambient

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[m1tch]

Hit the nail on the head.
The 190bhp celica had a very similar setup with the same stock panel. So the flow is absolutely fine in the stock air box.
For the TTE turbo, the only change is a sports panel in the stock box.

So, if it's purely about flow and intake temps for the least money... A sports panel.

Otherwise, behind the battery. In direct line of the side vent.

My IATs rarely go above 30 standing still with a hot engine. When driving, a few degrees over ambient

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Thanks for that, looking at the engine bay space I can see that the airbox can really only go in one place, its thick plastic and has a metal heat shield on it, I think I will look to maximise the airflow into the box, I have a complete spare air box so can look to enlarge the pipework etc to see if that makes a difference - more about trying a few different things.

I did notice that the passenger side vent wasn't 100% going to the cold air pipework in the wing - its basically just cooling the back of the battery and wiring harness! Might look to mod that side vent to run 100% of the air to the intake pipework.

[shnazzle]

That'd be a great mod. That combined with a markiii pipe would really ensure a great supply of fresh ambient air.
It's something I'm still considering doing with my fiberglass kit. The problem is the fuel vent pipe is in the way  s:( s:(

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[Essex2Visuvesi]

That'd be a great mod. That combined with a markiii pipe would really ensure a great supply of fresh ambient air.
It's something I'm still considering doing with my fiberglass kit. The problem is the fuel vent pipe is in the way  s:( s:(

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Watch this space

We're already on it  s;) s;)

[m1tch]

Stock airbox after a run seems to show temps at around 37c so much better - still trying to find a way to fit an induction kit behind the battery though.

Will be looking at a solution to route ram air into the OEM intake soon.

[shnazzle]

Just for laughs I threw my temperature probe for my new dash clock out the window for an accurate outside temp measurement and loaded ELMScan to get the IAT.

It was 4.25 deg C outside and at 50mph the IAT was 7 deg C.

I'm happy with that to be honest.
So that's the intake with alu fully enclosed filter with pipe feed from side vent. And I've wrapped all the piping in the engine bay in heat-reflective silver tape.

One more thing I want to do. Get the factory MAF calibration figures and compare to mine to see how different my MAF is reading from the stock pipe.
The MAF readings in any aftermarket air intake will be wrong. I just want to know how wrong. Then I can use the piggyback to accurately adjust accordingly

[Kaveney]

I have the ppe induction that sits behind the battery and got it new from the USA bus was not cheep

[m1tch]

I have the ppe induction that sits behind the battery and got it new from the USA bus was not cheep

I cut up a spare airbox for the MAF tube, a 45 degree 70mm silcone pipe and a generic filter and used that behind the battery, cost about £20 if that.

[shnazzle]

I have the ppe induction that sits behind the battery and got it new from the USA bus was not cheep

I cut up a spare airbox for the MAF tube, a 45 degree 70mm silcone pipe and a generic filter and used that behind the battery, cost about £20 if that.

Filter matters. A lot.

On the same stretch of road, same starting speed, full throttle with 3 different filter setups, the cheap ebay filter+stock maf+silicon performed worst.

Next worst was k&n panel filter in stock box (admittedly needed a clean)

Next was stock panel in stock box. As we always say, the stock setup does really work well.

The best flow was measured by the Hurricane intake I have but that's not the same maf setup so it's inconclusive.

[shnazzle]

The comparison thread:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=61697.0

Few unfinished areas in there. And the "mesh" behind the throttle body turns out has nothing to do with airflow.

We also know now the importance of the resonance pipe (the weird hook you see on the stock intake pipe) and its effect on preventing unwanted pulses from the cylinders causing turbulence in the intake.
Another reason the stock intake is a winner.

The voltage measured isn't a sufficient metric, as the stock intake has veins that focus the airflow on the MAF, causing a higher density reading (higher voltage).

The it was all done on my piggyback, which altered MAF voltage, but the voltage I wrote is from the emanage data log, so it's the unaltered MAF voltage. So the voltage is as the MAF read it, but performance was not analogue to it.

All in all:

- get a quality filter. It matters
- if changing the MAF setup, get  a piggyback to compensate (at least)
- stock will see you through to 190+ hp.  (tte turbo and 2zz both use the stock system)
- throttle response is better on a short cone setup
- intake temps are better on a good cone behind the battery than stock
- shorter, wider intake with cone will free up the top end but kill power a bit in the low/mid. Which is fine, you just need to rev it more Hence I'm pretty much always 4k-7k

[m1tch]

The comparison thread:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=61697.0

Few unfinished areas in there. And the "mesh" behind the throttle body turns out has nothing to do with airflow.

We also know now the importance of the resonance pipe (the weird hook you see on the stock intake pipe) and its effect on preventing unwanted pulses from the cylinders causing turbulence in the intake.
Another reason the stock intake is a winner.

The voltage measured isn't a sufficient metric, as the stock intake has veins that focus the airflow on the MAF, causing a higher density reading (higher voltage).

The it was all done on my piggyback, which altered MAF voltage, but the voltage I wrote is from the emanage data log, so it's the unaltered MAF voltage. So the voltage is as the MAF read it, but performance was not analogue to it.

All in all:

- get a quality filter. It matters
- if changing the MAF setup, get  a piggyback to compensate (at least)
- stock will see you through to 190+ hp.  (tte turbo and 2zz both use the stock system)
- throttle response is better on a short cone setup
- intake temps are better on a good cone behind the battery than stock
- shorter, wider intake with cone will free up the top end but kill power a bit in the low/mid. Which is fine, you just need to rev it more Hence I'm pretty much always 4k-7k

Thanks for this, I was thinking about removing the mesh from behind the TB, think I will just leave it in place for the time being.

I have a decent enclosed filter which I will be fitting soon - just chucked on a spare air filter I had in the garage to test fit to see what difference it made.

I will be fitting the PFC again (and probably the Link Xtreme soon as well) to see the power difference when looking to run some 1/4 mile times in the next month or so.

Saying that, I am not too worried about the top end power, more about the power delivery, I find that the cone filter has better throttle response and it seems to be a bit better midrange - should be further improved with the standalone ECU optimising the VVT-i.

Will be running with a behind the filter setup on this engine as well as the built 1zz engine when running NA - then swapping to a different setup when bolting on the turbo.

Also - did you retain the stock intake trumpet as well with the cone filter?

[shnazzle]

Which intake trumpet?

[m1tch]

Which intake trumpet?

Inside the stock airbox you have the removable plastic part with the vertical grill in front of the sensor, that removable part also has the velocity stack on it. Kinda hard to explain!

[shnazzle]

Ah yes I see. No my kit came with a maf housing. So nothing stock at all from filter to throttle body.

[m1tch]

Ah yes I see. No my kit came with a maf housing. So nothing stock at all from filter to throttle body.

Hmm thats interesting - might see what my MAF reading is with my current setup.

[shnazzle]

Well I was going to ask; bit of a long shot but I really could do with some stock MAF voltage readings.
with associated IATs. That way I can pick a day where the IAT is the same for me and see what the difference is between my maf readings and stock.
Unfortunately the only way I can get volt readings are via the emanage tool. Torque only puts out the calculated flow

[m1tch]

Well I was going to ask; bit of a long shot but I really could do with some stock MAF voltage readings.
with associated IATs. That way I can pick a day where the IAT is the same for me and see what the difference is between my maf readings and stock.
Unfortunately the only way I can get volt readings are via the emanage tool. Torque only puts out the calculated flow

Might be able to data log them via the PFC

[shnazzle]

Well I was going to ask; bit of a long shot but I really could do with some stock MAF voltage readings.
with associated IATs. That way I can pick a day where the IAT is the same for me and see what the difference is between my maf readings and stock.
Unfortunately the only way I can get volt readings are via the emanage tool. Torque only puts out the calculated flow

Might be able to data log them via the PFC

That would be mighty helpful indeed!
For my benefit only really but it would also highlight what we keep saying about the importance of the stock maf setup,and that if you do decide to go aftermarket, you need something to fiddle the signal.

A little snippet from one of my EFI books:

from "Engine Management: Advance Tuning" by Greg Banish -

"Any errors between the MAF output and actual engine airflow directly result in inaccuracy in fuel control and engine operation"

and

"The primary concern is the assumption of laminar flow across the area of the MAF sensor. If airflow across the sensor is greater on one side than another, the output can be skewed relative to the clocking of the metering element. The common source for such a problem is usually a bend in the intake plumbing immediately ahead of the MAF sensor. Since airflow is biased toward the outside radius of a bend, placing the metering element on the outside radius of a bend yields an output that indicates higher total flow than is currently present. The opposite is also true with reduced outputs resulting from element placement on the inside radius of a bend."

[m1tch]

Well I was going to ask; bit of a long shot but I really could do with some stock MAF voltage readings.
with associated IATs. That way I can pick a day where the IAT is the same for me and see what the difference is between my maf readings and stock.
Unfortunately the only way I can get volt readings are via the emanage tool. Torque only puts out the calculated flow

Might be able to data log them via the PFC

That would be mighty helpful indeed!
For my benefit only really but it would also highlight what we keep saying about the importance of the stock maf setup,and that if you do decide to go aftermarket, you need something to fiddle the signal.

A little snippet from one of my EFI books:

from "Engine Management: Advance Tuning" by Greg Banish -

"Any errors between the MAF output and actual engine airflow directly result in inaccuracy in fuel control and engine operation"

and

"The primary concern is the assumption of laminar flow across the area of the MAF sensor. If airflow across the sensor is greater on one side than another, the output can be skewed relative to the clocking of the metering element. The common source for such a problem is usually a bend in the intake plumbing immediately ahead of the MAF sensor. Since airflow is biased toward the outside radius of a bend, placing the metering element on the outside radius of a bend yields an output that indicates higher total flow than is currently present. The opposite is also true with reduced outputs resulting from element placement on the inside radius of a bend."

I have an Apexi kit on the shelf which has a MAF tube as well but wanted to only use the OEM MAF tube for this reason, the MAF isn't directly in the centre either (which is why the MAF riser mod works). Will see what I can get logged for you - could perhaps also idle the car and run the OEM MAF tube then swap over to an aftermarket MAF and see if there is a difference in readings.