Other ways to stiffen suspension.......

[HFB]

...without spending £6-800 on a set of coilovers.

After my first successful outing at Brands on the 9th and the car performing perfectly, I am now looking to see how to improve the handling and avoid roll in the interim before forking out for a whole new set of coilovers down the line.

Without throwing £100's at it, are there any cheaper interim suggestions that will improve the handling on these cars?

I keep thinking about some Tien springs, or similar, but again, my rear offside shock is on its way out and misting, so that would need to be replaced too......which then requires the nearside rear doing at the same time and voila £300 gone (without labour costs)!!!   s:o s:o  

Any cheaper suggestions for interim fixes to improve handling?

Remove ashtray?
Change radio station to Kiss FM?
Put the heater onto recycle?

HFB

[1979scotte]

First off you and a mate with some knowledge can change shocks and springs that really isn't rocket science.
Second in my opinion based on no expertise at all if one shock is on the way out then they are all tired.

I changed out my standard shocks and TTE springs at 60K miles for Meister R coil overs. At the price for me it was worth the upgrade over standard.
If it had been a family wagon I would run the suspension into the ground but not on a sports car.

Apart from making the car lighter by removing stuff can't think of anything that doesn't require spending tbh.

Edit
Just had a quick search for shocks. They've gone up in price now 100 per corner think they were less than 90 last time I looked.

[cptspaulding]

if one shock is on the way out then they are all tired.

Agreed.

I recently changed mine & I stayed stock. Worked out just a smidge cheaper than the Meister coilovers that are on offer here. Depends on the compromise you want between handling/body roll & comfort for everyday driving.

You might try fitting a MattPerformance brace but you're suspension sounds pretty much knackered, particularly for track. Start writing to Santa for a set of coilovers. In the meantime reduce your budget for Xmas pressies - get a bottle of Old Spice for everyone - & save your pennies.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

(edit) & don't forget to budget for a 4 wheel alignment after.

[HFB]

if one shock is on the way out then they are all tired.

Agreed.

I recently changed mine & I stayed stock. Worked out just a smidge cheaper than the Meister coilovers that are on offer here. Depends on the compromise you want between handling/body roll & comfort for everyday driving.

You might try fitting a MattPerformance brace but you're suspension sounds pretty much knackered, particularly for track. Start writing to Santa for a set of coilovers. In the meantime reduce your budget for Xmas pressies - get a bottle of Old Spice for everyone - & save your pennies.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

(edit) & don't forget to budget for a 4 wheel alignment after.

Have recently bought and fitted a Mattbrace Captain S   s:) s:)  

Yeah, I am thinking that about the shocks too.

This is purely a weekend/track to, so ride comfort is not a major concern tbh.

However after spending out £500 on front disks, pads all round and braided hoses (plus another £300 on labour and laser alignment etc), £120 on the brace plus another £100 or so on rear sub rustproofing, Fuchs oil and filter, I'm already about £1200 costs on a car I only bought for £1400!!!

Already got another TD planned for mid March, so might go the expensive Xmas prezzie route and get everyone to chip in to the kitty.

If I buy a full set of coilovers (£650 ish), am I right in reading that I'm gonna need a pair of rear droplinks too?

Any other hidden costs I need to be aware of probably incurring?

HFB

[Jrichards20]

Buy my BC coilovers for £550 if you like. That's cheaper. I'm tempted to try some Meisters instead.

[1979scotte]

Buy my BC coilovers for £550 if you like. That's cheaper. I'm tempted to try some Meisters instead.

Another reason to give me a lift Saturday.
You can have a go in a perfectly aligned and weighted meister R equipped car.

[HFB]

Buy my BC coilovers for £550 if you like. That's cheaper. I'm tempted to try some Meisters instead.

Hmmmmmmm.......damn you sir, trying to make me skint!   s:D s:D  

Are they still on your car?

Why don't you like them?

What are the spec's of the coilovers (and were they new when you bought them?)

I'll ask my mechanic chappie and come back to you.......very tempting.   s:D s:D

[loadswine]

A set of KYB excel g shocks is a good solution if you don't need adjustable suspension. I have used them in the past and was very impressed with them. Works out around the £300 pound mark for a set of 4. Supposed to be about 15-20% stiffer than stock, which, from experience, felt about right.

[Jrichards20]

Buy my BC coilovers for £550 if you like. That's cheaper. I'm tempted to try some Meisters instead.

Hmmmmmmm.......damn you sir, trying to make me skint!   s:D s:D  

Are they still on your car?

Why don't you like them?

What are the spec's of the coilovers (and were they new when you bought them?)

I'll ask my mechanic chappie and come back to you.......very tempting.   s:D s:D

They are not on the car at the moment no. Its not that I don't like them, they are great coilovers, just fancy some meisters  s:) s:)  

BC BR Series Coilovers. 5/7 spring rate. 30 way adjustable, ride height adjustable etc etc. (they were a couple of months old when I bought them, hadn't been on previous car for very long at all, and they've don't literally no miles on mine haha, they look brand new, would say there are hardly any miles on them what so ever)

Fitting them yourself would be no problem what so ever. Especially if you've got a shot shock already, you'll have to change all four if you were going standard. These will not take any longer to fit.

Until I get the call from woodsport to take the car up there, the coilovers will be staying off and in the dry  s:) s:)  so plenty of time to have a think about it.

Buy my BC coilovers for £550 if you like. That's cheaper. I'm tempted to try some Meisters instead.

Another reason to give me a lift Saturday.
You can have a go in a perfectly aligned and weighted meister R equipped car.

sorry mate  s:( s:(  I don't have a functioning car at the moment, I'm not driving anywhere for the moment, its becoming a bit of a long wait to drive this 2  s:( s:(

[1979scotte]

A set of KYB excel g shocks is a good solution if you don't need adjustable suspension. I have used them in the past and was very impressed with them. Works out around the £300 pound mark for a set of 4. Supposed to be about 15-20% stiffer than stock, which, from experience, felt about right.

Not sure you can still get them for that sort of money anymore but it has been a year since I really looked.

[Topdownman]

Yep, most people change the rear droplinks when doing the rear shocks as they can be hard to remove if for no other reason (The fronts dont attach to the shock).When I looked for them I could only find them at Camskill but they are not selling parts at the moment so may be hard to find cheap?

Dont forget the front top mounts, if you find they need replacing too, they are very expensive! If you get adjustable coilovers then you get them included so its not so much about the cost but what is going to be right for you. With a track day car you would be able to get the full benefit of coilovers (handling) and not be too concerned about the drawback (a less comfortable ride). These are very subjective though so helps to have a ride in other cars if possible.

Whatever you go for, new shocks are a worthwhile purchase though in my opinion.

[1979scotte]

Delphi links from eBay is what I used something in the region of a tenner each delivered.

[jeffsimply]

Hi Mel, nice to meet you at Brands. My personal opinion is the car handles pretty damn great as standard, even with tired components. You can pick up OE replacements of course, but you'll end up spending close to a set of aftermarket coilovers anyway but then Toyota put more money into R&D on the car than any company like BC or Meister so it's not inferior by a long shot. Body roll isn't a bad thing, stiffening the car won't increase grip in the corners, tyres will help you there. If you just want a more pointy car though, stiffening will obviously help there.

As far as brakes go, having driven a standard power MR2 round a circuit I'd say braided hoses are an obvious replacement if your pedal is becoming spongy during but otherwise the car will hold up fine on standard discs and pads.

[Jrichards20]

Hi Mel, nice to meet you at Brands. My personal opinion is the car handles pretty damn great as standard, even with tired components. You can pick up OE replacements of course, but you'll end up spending close to a set of aftermarket coilovers anyway but then Toyota put more money into R&D on the car than any company like BC or Meister so it's not inferior by a long shot. Body roll isn't a bad thing, stiffening the car won't increase grip in the corners, tyres will help you there. If you just want a more pointy car though, stiffening will obviously help there.

As far as brakes go, having driven a standard power MR2 round a circuit I'd say braided hoses are an obvious replacement if your pedal is becoming spongy during but otherwise the car will hold up fine on standard discs and pads.

I don't agree with you on this one I'm afraid. Reducing body roll means less effect on the camber of the tyre during corning, with a stiffer suspension, the less the tyre will "lean" on one side which will increase the contact patch with the ground. Also altering the stiffness of the coilovers between front and back will also effect the conering, by stiffening up front or rear, it will induce either understeer or oversteer, making the car more balanced and cornering forces equal. obviously these need to be set up properly to work.  Very brief explanation and there are a lot more factors involved and proper terminology to be used, but just gives a small input into getting around a corner quick.

But I do agree tyres are even more important.

[1979scotte]

Getting some proper track day rubber would make a huge difference if you are running road tyres but again it's all about spending money.
If you are having fun  with what you've got keep it that way. Just replace the axel pair of shocks that are worn.

[HFB]

Buy my BC coilovers for £550 if you like. That's cheaper. I'm tempted to try some Meisters instead.

Hi mate

If you'll take £450 for them, it's a deal!   s:D s:D  

HFB

[jeffsimply]

Hi Mel, nice to meet you at Brands. My personal opinion is the car handles pretty damn great as standard, even with tired components. You can pick up OE replacements of course, but you'll end up spending close to a set of aftermarket coilovers anyway but then Toyota put more money into R&D on the car than any company like BC or Meister so it's not inferior by a long shot. Body roll isn't a bad thing, stiffening the car won't increase grip in the corners, tyres will help you there. If you just want a more pointy car though, stiffening will obviously help there.

As far as brakes go, having driven a standard power MR2 round a circuit I'd say braided hoses are an obvious replacement if your pedal is becoming spongy during but otherwise the car will hold up fine on standard discs and pads.

I don't agree with you on this one I'm afraid. Reducing body roll means less effect on the camber of the tyre during corning, with a stiffer suspension, the less the tyre will "lean" on one side which will increase the contact patch with the ground. Also altering the stiffness of the coilovers between front and back will also effect the conering, by stiffening up front or rear, it will induce either understeer or oversteer, making the car more balanced and cornering forces equal. obviously these need to be set up properly to work.  Very brief explanation and there are a lot more factors involved and proper terminology to be used, but just gives a small input into getting around a corner quick.

But I do agree tyres are even more important.

The standard car doesn't roll enough to stop gripping on it's inside tyre, so stiffening it any further is just going to improve response if anything. With that being said, neither of those things will increase your corner speed if you get the entry correct which brings us back to absolute grip, which is where tyres come in.

I'm not saying don't buy coilovers, just don't kid yourself into thinking they'll make you quicker.

[shnazzle]

Hi Mel, nice to meet you at Brands. My personal opinion is the car handles pretty damn great as standard, even with tired components. You can pick up OE replacements of course, but you'll end up spending close to a set of aftermarket coilovers anyway but then Toyota put more money into R&D on the car than any company like BC or Meister so it's not inferior by a long shot. Body roll isn't a bad thing, stiffening the car won't increase grip in the corners, tyres will help you there. If you just want a more pointy car though, stiffening will obviously help there.

As far as brakes go, having driven a standard power MR2 round a circuit I'd say braided hoses are an obvious replacement if your pedal is becoming spongy during but otherwise the car will hold up fine on standard discs and pads.

I don't agree with you on this one I'm afraid. Reducing body roll means less effect on the camber of the tyre during corning, with a stiffer suspension, the less the tyre will "lean" on one side which will increase the contact patch with the ground. Also altering the stiffness of the coilovers between front and back will also effect the conering, by stiffening up front or rear, it will induce either understeer or oversteer, making the car more balanced and cornering forces equal. obviously these need to be set up properly to work.  Very brief explanation and there are a lot more factors involved and proper terminology to be used, but just gives a small input into getting around a corner quick.

But I do agree tyres are even more important.

The standard car doesn't roll enough to stop gripping on it's inside tyre, so stiffening it any further is just going to improve response if anything. With that being said, neither of those things will increase your corner speed if you get the entry correct which brings us back to absolute grip, which is where tyres come in.

I'm not saying don't buy coilovers, just don't kid yourself into thinking they'll make you quicker.

Dunno... I can 100% hold a corner much quicker than before on stock.
But the best thing by far is, as you said, response. On S-bends, the first corner is absolutely fantastic for a stock car, but then when you have to quickly swing the car the other way, you have to wait quite a while for the car to take a set so you can get the max out of the corner.
On coilovers (even cheap ones like MeisterR and BC), the response is sharpened up drastically allowing you to quickly change directions and take a stable loaded stance very quickly.
Stiffer bushes in my opinion will make it firmer and responsive as well. You're removing some of the slack in weight transfer, seems logical. But they also make it more noisy and cause vibrations  s:) s:)

[frootloops]

I have to disagree with others and say just because one shock is knackered it doesn't mean to say the rest are soon to go. As you're on a budget, if it were me I'd replace it with a used shock cheaply and put some tein springs on. You can change for new, upgraded shocks at a later date if necessary and at least you'll have spread the cost. Of course this is assuming you're doing the work yourself.

[CrazySX]

I have to disagree with others and say just because one shock is knackered it doesn't mean to say the rest are soon to go. As you're on a budget, if it were me I'd replace it with a used shock cheaply and put some tein springs on. You can change for new, upgraded shocks at a later date if necessary and at least you'll have spread the cost. Of course this is assuming you're doing the work yourself.

I agree to a degree but I wouldn't say change one shock. If one is knackered the other will be weak so to put a new shock on one side and have a weak shock on the other would cause imbalanced rebound rates. That can't be good. I would suggest you change both shock on an axel.

[loadswine]

A set of KYB excel g shocks is a good solution if you don't need adjustable suspension. I have used them in the past and was very impressed with them. Works out around the £300 pound mark for a set of 4. Supposed to be about 15-20% stiffer than stock, which, from experience, felt about right.

Not sure you can still get them for that sort of money anymore but it has been a year since I really looked.

I saw them on this link Scott,
 m https://www.buypartsby.co.uk/buy/TOYOTA ... absorbers/ m

But I don't know much about that supplier.
Seems the OP is going to opt for adjustables anyway, ao kind of academic now.
Personally, I found those KYBs at least as good as Tein super street adjustables, if not slightly better. Was pretty much the sweetest all round roadster that I had, for handling. I didn't go for track focussed though, just good on the road. Worked well with around 220 turbo horses.

[CrazySX]

A set of KYB excel g shocks is a good solution if you don't need adjustable suspension. I have used them in the past and was very impressed with them. Works out around the £300 pound mark for a set of 4. Supposed to be about 15-20% stiffer than stock, which, from experience, felt about right.

Not sure you can still get them for that sort of money anymore but it has been a year since I really looked.

I saw them on this link Scott,
 m https://www.buypartsby.co.uk/buy/TOYOTA ... absorbers/ m

But I don't know much about that supplier.
Seems the OP is going to opt for adjustables anyway, ao kind of academic now.
Personally, I found those KYBs at least as good as Tein super street adjustables, if not slightly better. Was pretty much the sweetest all round roadster that I had, for handling. I didn't go for track focussed though, just good on the road. Worked well with around 220 turbo horses.

That's a bloody bargain! If they are still there in the summer I am having a set. Shame I didn't know about this when I fitted my springs  s:( s:(

[Ardent]

Almost wish i needed some more. Cracking price

[Ardent]

I have to disagree with others and say just because one shock is knackered it doesn't mean to say the rest are soon to go. As you're on a budget, if it were me I'd replace it with a used shock cheaply and put some tein springs on. You can change for new, upgraded shocks at a later date if necessary and at least you'll have spread the cost. Of course this is assuming you're doing the work yourself.

Correct in could spread the cost. But would be paying twice. if going to the teouble of changing springs. False economy not to do shocks.

[1979scotte]

A set of KYB excel g shocks is a good solution if you don't need adjustable suspension. I have used them in the past and was very impressed with them. Works out around the £300 pound mark for a set of 4. Supposed to be about 15-20% stiffer than stock, which, from experience, felt about right.

Not sure you can still get them for that sort of money anymore but it has been a year since I really looked.

I saw them on this link Scott,
 m https://www.buypartsby.co.uk/buy/TOYOTA ... absorbers/ m

But I don't know much about that supplier.
Seems the OP is going to opt for adjustables anyway, ao kind of academic now.
Personally, I found those KYBs at least as good as Tein super street adjustables, if not slightly better. Was pretty much the sweetest all round roadster that I had, for handling. I didn't go for track focussed though, just good on the road. Worked well with around 220 turbo horses.

Best price I have ever seen for the rears. Unbelievable.
Change the lot for that money.
Bargain.