Air filter location and test results.

StuC · May 14, 2014, 13:41

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Jrichards20 · May 14, 2014, 13:53

Thank you!! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:

Mr X · May 16, 2014, 09:15

Just a quick update...
after fitting the new vent it made a drastic improvement. So much so that heat soak wasn't so much of a problem as with the other scoop (about the same as standard vent) and intake temps at all speeds were lower (19c was my lowest) even though the ambient temperature is higher ATM! I would love to see how this does with a turbo sucking air in though it! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

I installed the ducting without recording the results as I thought this would improve things. I was wrong! heat soak an issue again and the intake temps would climb to 35c at 70mph!
*edit* also, idle temps hit 40c! Maybe it's just the duct I have but the ducting must cause a lot of turbulence in the flow of air into the engine bay!
*edit* and obstruction when in traffic. Would think that ducting the intake is for a shielded filter ONLY! I know the fuel tank return is kind-of in the way but it's quite free flowing in there.

Thank you for the interest in the vents but it takes a week to print one. The new one is made from 5 parts each taking between 3 > 5 hours + warm-up time + downtime/head jams. Also, I do have other plans for the printer (new rear lights and hopefully, a complete spoiler). If people do want one and willing to be patient I could probably print the parts required between jobs.

Mr X · May 16, 2014, 14:58

decided to use the data logging function. The temp in brackets is difference between value and ambient.

Mr X · May 17, 2014, 13:52

re-installed standard everything today and went the same route as previous log.
Even though max flow rate is the same as the cone, this only lasted at 102g/s for 1 second. Flow rate with the cone filter is higher flow longer, throttle response is slower as standard and the engine doesn't like to rev as much.
Here are the results:

GarethB · May 17, 2014, 17:32

QuoteThank you for the interest in the vents but it takes a week to print one. The new one is made from 5 parts each taking between 3 > 5 hours + warm-up time + downtime/head jams. Also, I do have other plans for the printer (new rear lights and hopefully, a complete spoiler). If people do want one and willing to be patient I could probably print the parts required between jobs.

More than happy to be patient, and would definitely like a set at some point (if possible) please s:D

s:D

Purely from an aesthetics (imo) perspective, have you I considered extending the vents to make them more C-One in style? That would make them perfect in my eyes s8)

s8)

Mr X · May 18, 2014, 21:41

ok, today I made a makeshift heat shied..... My dad called it a work of art. I call it a complete mess but it should do the job!

This part was made from the old air box heat shield that's bolted to the subframe.

This part was made from an old stainless cover from erm... something!

I took a little test drive but unfortunately, I was unable to do the route I have done in the previous 2 tests as after my check I discovered that my head gasket is leaking! s:roll: :roll: s:roll: coolant was coming from under the exhaust manifold. I have taken the cams and checked the head bolts and they are way up to sepc. So I've put it back together. Hopefully, it's now ok!

Quote from: "GarethB"Purely from an aesthetics (imo) perspective, have you I considered extending the vents to make them more C-One in style? That would make them perfect in my eyes

Sorry to say, I have thought about it but I'm happy with the way they are. I have so little time I just don't want to put more effort in designing the additional parts to make it look like this. As explained in my other thread, the printer can only print things a certain way and to make the vent's more like the c-one's I would have to design another 6 parts plus the extra print time (roughly an extra 10 hours).

Mr X · June 25, 2014, 15:05

Another update to this.
Now my car is lowered, I refitted the engine undercover (didn't think anything about this effecting the results at the time). I've find now that my intake temps are a lot hotter than before!

I really need to remove the undercover to verify but a tad scared of hitting a brick or something! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

I'm also thinking I need to get a proper cone shielded intake rather than a make-shift one to complement all these results.

Mr X · August 12, 2014, 21:00

ok, now I'm back from a nice holiday in sweden while the UK gets a battering it's time to install another intake set up and see what changes I get!

K&N apollo from ebay. Part No: RC-5052AB for £137.50 inc delivery.

The car still pop's and bangs but by far not as much. Quieter on idle but major induction roar over 4krpm s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

hope to have some temp/maf results soon....

FuZZy_gr · August 14, 2014, 14:18

Nice work but i would like to ask a question. I once wanted to buy ppe short intake but they told me that you need a power fc in order to change intake length. Is this true with or i can do a short custom one. I know about needing to have the same intake diameter but is lenght a problem too?

Mr X · August 14, 2014, 15:51

Thank you... from what I've seen so far, this set up is s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: compared to the others!

From what I understand of it, that doesn't sound right to me... tube length shouldn't matter.
Filter types, heat, atmospheric pressure, restrictions in flow (bends in pipe), etc will all effect air flow rate through to the engine. The ECU needs the volume of oxygen passing that that given moment. Pipe diameter of the sensor will effect that calculation therefore, we cannot change it.

FuZZy_gr · August 14, 2014, 16:26

m http://www.ppeengineering-onlinestore.c ... 10004I.htm m

This is the intake i m speaking about. Back then the description had included that this intake needs a power fc installed. Emailed them and they responded that i can not install it on an oem ecu and that i would have problems so i quited thinking of using a side vent intake. So now i ll do a custom one keeping the same diameter as the standard tube. Lastly i want to know if you can change the diameter when using a blue emanage or you need a stand alone

Mr X · August 15, 2014, 10:15

oh, I thought you meant pre/post MAF pipework, not changing the MAF it'self. To be honest, I would never advise anyone getting an open filter even with a mock-up shield (both were tested in here). Then engine bay is just too dam hot. Even with a big side scoop, I was getting 50c+ in traffic this summer once I re-installed the engine under tray/nappy.

I will try to post some pre-view results from the apollo today, I'm waiting for the same conditions as the other tests to make them 100% accurate.

They must have changed the diameter of that pipe if you need a replacement ecu +map.

FuZZy_gr · August 15, 2014, 11:41

I think that the goal is to make a colder intake in cruising conditions as in traffic even the best intake will get hot. My logic says that cruising with a side ventintake will br slightly better from any other intake. Waiting to see your results.

Mr X · August 15, 2014, 13:10

here you go. I'm hoping for a warmer day when I don't get stuck behind a tractor. Once I hit a day when it's 23c>24c I will repost so then it will match the same conditions as the others.

FuZZy_gr · August 15, 2014, 13:36

Seems pretty cool!

Anonymous · August 17, 2014, 09:06

Interesting results, it's not very often someone goes to the trouble to do that, so thanks!

I was planning on running a ppe style intake with the 2zz but now I think I will get an enclosed one like the k&n you tried.

lamcote · August 17, 2014, 11:02

A 10 centigrade reduction to the intake air temperature should give a 1.5% power increase, that's 2 bhp on a standard engine.

Mr X · August 19, 2014, 11:17

well.... The weather looks like it's getting colder now so unless we have a sudden change, it doesn't look like I will be able to do any more on this s:roll: :roll: s:roll: I was also hoping to do a standard vent with the apollo too.

The one that I have posted is only lower by a few deg of ambient temperature so it should be close to like-for-like anyway.
All the results were started at the same spot on my trip home after work just after the coolant hits 90c, so should be relative to each other.

I have noticed that if the car is running for longer (60min+), the metals in the engine bay warm up and again increases intake temp. This will increase intake temps of open air filters by a much larger factor than enclosed.

Another thing to consider is intake temp also drastically effects exhaust temp. Hotter your exhaust, the more you'll stuffer from heat soak and the more your intake temp will go up.

Time to thermal wrap my manifold I think s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I'd be interested to know what other people get if they have a different set-up and the torque app.

Anonymous · July 20, 2015, 13:57

Hey Mr_X

I've been looking at the intake temps in my car.

I went for the K&N Apollo, but I have routed it slightly different to you. Where exactly is the intake air temp sensor; is it part of the MAF?

I will try and log it and post some charts like you,

I have been monitoring it where possible, ambient temp 22degC and it seems to hover around 26-27deg intake temp, going up to around 31 when stationary.

do you think those results sound ok, going on your findings so far, or do you think I should be looking to get the temp down a little?

Mr X · July 21, 2015, 13:50

Mine was hovering about +4 when idle at 21c ambient when i did these. It went up to about 40c when we had that 33c day a few weeks ago.

Looking at your setup it goes to the stock location enclosed behind the bumper where as mine went to the side vent. That's a shorter distance to the outside world and taking it directly.

the filter only starts probably about 4 inches away from the vent. Readings are taken from the MAF sensor using torque. Colder is always better as it has more oxygen in it however, that effects turbo cars more.

that's one nice looking engine bay BTW! s8)

s8)

Jrichards20 · July 21, 2015, 14:01

Quote from: "Mr X"that's one nice looking engine bay BTW! s8) s8)

if better be after the sshit shit sshit he's been through! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · July 21, 2015, 14:03

Quote from: "Mr X"Mine was hovering about +4 when idle at 21c ambient when i did these. It went up to about 40c when we had that 33c day a few weeks ago.

Looking at your setup it goes to the stock location enclosed behind the bumper where as mine went to the side vent. That's a shorter distance to the outside world and taking it directly.

the filter only starts probably about 4 inches away from the vent. Readings are taken from the MAF sensor using torque. Colder is always better as it has more oxygen in it however, that effects turbo cars more.

that's one nice looking engine bay BTW! s8) s8)

Ok thanks. I might try it direct to the vent like yours and see if the temps are lower.

I'm using dash command but it works in the same way.

Did you stick with the K&N or change it for something else?